Crit Vs Reflect Unbalanced

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iFiNiTi wrote:

GGG,

I totally support your game and love it, but you need to do something about reflected crits.. (Especially Phy reflect)

Critting is so fun and useful, but why even bother it's RIP sooner or later.

See, you do not understand.

Crit builds are amazing, you're just doing it wrong.

GGG wants you to put any spell or skill you use on a totem, and have the totem cast the skill for you.

Then reflect is not a problem, see?

GGG will stop doing balance patches once every single person who plays is using a totem build. The game will be "finished" then.

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Navac wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

dps in general is made worthless due to reflect unless your satisfied with being under level 90

totems

which is exactly why their so grossly overpowered and why 90% of onslaught builds are based on them.

A build that can stack dps to the roof without ever fearing reflect while still able to do things like mf magic multi curse or stack ridiculous amounts of surviability is by definition overpowered.

As it stands, the ratio of dps vs life youd need to properly advance past level 90 essentially forces 85-95% life node allocation and life or +exp on every gear slot and koams. What kind of awful and dull metagame is that? Any notion of passive node diversity is comical until reflect mechanics are re examined.

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

but its true - theres no such thing as offscreen death, the aura is at least always in range on your screen, and you can see it. And if you are a crit build with something like 800 multi and just see a lot of clutter on your screen and insist on spamming LA or whatever instead of taking it easy, im sorry, that is YOUR fault. You cannot die to reflect in one hit and there ARE easy counters to it. And I dont want a faceroll game ...

Don't take my word on it - try for yourself.

- Spot a pack of mobs from a distance without aggroing them.
- Pull back to the point you no longer see them.
- Start shooting in their direction.
- ??????
- PROFIT

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

And I dont want a faceroll game ...

Don't play PoE. Seiously, challenging interesting fights that are not gear/build checks are more rare than Igna Phoenix with gaping holes of mindnumbing grind and sudden-death-damage-spikes between.

Last MMO I played that was not a faceroll is DDO. Both climbing up to the max level while learning the ropes and daring toughest quests with capped toons is quite fun. Interesting mechanics coupled with strict resource management made elite Tower of Destruction, elite Demon Queen, epic Chains of Flame and many others into exciting challenges to best prepared, top geared skilled players. Too bad I couldn't dedicate enough time to stay on top of the food chain and wouldn't satisfy with less.

PoE on the other hand allows for more casual gameplay without overcommitment. I can play less than 1hour a day and still enjoy the progress my characters are making. This game has potential to overthrow D2 from its throne of best ARPGs.

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DareDog wrote:

Don't play PoE. Seiously, challenging interesting fights that are not gear/build checks are more rare than Igna Phoenix with gaping holes of mindnumbing grind and sudden-death-damage-spikes between.

Last MMO I played that was not a faceroll is DDO. Both climbing up to the max level while learning the ropes and daring toughest quests with capped toons is quite fun. Interesting mechanics coupled with strict resource management made elite Tower of Destruction, elite Demon Queen, epic Chains of Flame and many others into exciting challenges to best prepared, top geared skilled players. Too bad I couldn't dedicate enough time to stay on top of the food chain and wouldn't satisfy with less.

PoE on the other hand allows for more casual gameplay without overcommitment. I can play less than 1hour a day and still enjoy the progress my characters are making. This game has potential to overthrow D2 from its throne of best ARPGs.

I think you should be the one not playing poe tbh, you are the one whining, not me! The game is challenging enough for me. Your gear check argument is so flawed and half arsed its not even funny. Do you play naked? And the difficulty is called merciless after all, are you expecting the game to babysit you after normal and cruel mode? And the game is all about loot, the same way d2 and d3 are.

PS ... POE is not an MMO ... why are you discussing MMO's?

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

I think you should be the one not playing poe tbh, you are the one whining, not me! The game is challenging enough for me. Your gear check argument is so flawed and half arsed its not even funny. Do you play naked? And the difficulty is called merciless after all, are you expecting the game to babysit you after normal and cruel mode? And the game is all about loot, the same way d2 and d3 are.

Have you even read my post?
I WANT to have challenging mechanics. I want nontrivial content, difficult quests, bosses with interesting attacking patterns, build diversity.

What I don't like is
- Gear checks and hard counters. Why bother making chaos damage different when everyone is either hp or CI or uses Shav?
- Instakills. In a game where perfect latency is only dreamed of, you shouldn't lose a character to a one misstep.
- Damagespikes. Since you have to be prepared for the worst, everything else becomes less than trivial.
- Right way to build your character. Way of Totems, anyone?
- Limited skill panel. Less than 10 skills to actively use in combat - need I say more?
- Trivial content to farm. Not being able to run difficult content because you are not ready to face the challenge is fine. 1-shotting helpless mobs in 66 maps because RNG was not in your favor is a shining example of poor game design.

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DareDog wrote:

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JahIthBerTirUmMalLumKoKoMal wrote:

I think you should be the one not playing poe tbh, you are the one whining, not me! The game is challenging enough for me. Your gear check argument is so flawed and half arsed its not even funny. Do you play naked? And the difficulty is called merciless after all, are you expecting the game to babysit you after normal and cruel mode? And the game is all about loot, the same way d2 and d3 are.

Have you even read my post?
I WANT to have challenging mechanics. I want nontrivial content, difficult quests, bosses with interesting attacking patterns, build diversity.

What I don't like is
- Gear checks and hard counters. Why bother making chaos damage different when everyone is either hp or CI or uses Shav?
- Instakills. In a game where perfect latency is only dreamed of, you shouldn't lose a character to a one misstep.
- Damagespikes. Since you have to be prepared for the worst, everything else becomes less than trivial.
- Right way to build your character. Way of Totems, anyone?
- Limited skill panel. Less than 10 skills to actively use in combat - need I say more?
- Trivial content to farm. Not being able to run difficult content because you are not ready to face the challenge is fine. 1-shotting helpless mobs in 66 maps because RNG was not in your favor is a shining example of poor game design.

yeah you didnt read what I said

-Gear / build checks are fine and its normal. Its called **merciless** difficulty. Please refer to my sig.

- Instakills / spikes. Its your build. I have a tank build. It never happens. No, not even once. Not to chaos, not to puncture, not to kole or vaal or megaera. Or titty bitches or voidbearers or lightning throns or reflect or discharge or flicker or rhoa charges. No, nada, never.

- Totem builds. No one forces you to play them. Wipe your tears already

- Less than 10 skills to actively use in combat. You clearly havent played d3. And why you would need to shuffle more than 10 skills in a build is beyond me!

- Latency / lag / desync. Rarely experience it, even if ... its not a gameplay issue. We are discussing gameplay here, not technical issues.

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BigRussianDude wrote:

Two very similair people make two very similair critical strike-based builds. They both encounter very similair monsters with reflect aura and proceed to attack it and one shot themselves with a crit.

One person thinks about how he can change his build, change his gear, change his skills, to not one shot himself due to reflect. He one shots himself a few more times, but eventually finds a working strategy that allows him to survive despite Chris' best attempts to kill him.

The other person throws his hands up in the air, thinking "How is this possible? My character should never die!". He proceeds to complain on the forums.

Is the problem with the player or the game?

(But different types of reflect are pretty imbalanced relative to each other)

The problem is with the game.

It's the player that should decide on what they WANT to build, not the game forcing the player to build a certain way. If there is a right way to build and a wrong way to build, then might as well drop the passive tree all together and go D3 way, where you can't fuck up your build, everything is just given to you as you level up.

Edit: I will elaborate more specifically about the glass cannon builds. The ONLY right reaction from a glass cannon character to any deaths should be: ''Oh, I didn't have enough damage, I need to level up more and find better gear.'' Because Glass cannons defence is offence. When Glass cannon dies because of their damage, that is absurd and is equal to a tank dying because that tank had too much defence and hp.

Perhaps we should add that kind of mob, that deals progressively more damage the more defence and hp/es the player has. To the point where this mob will one shot a full tank, but will only mildly hurt a character with no defence.

- Hard counters. You missed the point by miles. Nothing is "merciless" about not running X until you find Y. Nothing is "merciless" about rerolling blood magic map on a CI build. The line between flat "NO!" and "You may try but it's going to hurt so don't come back whining." is thin but not non-existant.

- Damagespikes. Is it fun to dispatch trashmobs on a build who can facetank Kole? Its boring as hell.

- Totems. I can play all I want or even not play at all. It does nothing to the fact that currently totems are an ultimate answer to any question.

- <10 active skills. Maybe I am too oldschool but without half a hundred different ways to deal with a problem I feel like pressing big red WIN button over and over again.

- Latency. Shall we talk about this baby?

[Mod Edit: Removed]

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tikitaki wrote:

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iFiNiTi wrote:

GGG,

I totally support your game and love it, but you need to do something about reflected crits.. (Especially Phy reflect)

Critting is so fun and useful, but why even bother it's RIP sooner or later.

See, you do not understand.

Crit builds are amazing, you're just doing it wrong.

GGG wants you to put any spell or skill you use on a totem, and have the totem cast the skill for you.

Then reflect is not a problem, see?

GGG will stop doing balance patches once every single person who plays is using a totem build. The game will be "finished" then.

This is true.

But it's not the fault of the totems. The totems are unappealing but not fundamentally broken by their very nature. The problem is that the REFLECT mechanic is literally twisting every other aspect of the game.

Life is underpowered? Why? Because Life doesn't have the pool to handle reflect. Life-based characters can easily be tankier than ES characters even if ES characters have significantly higher eHP pools. But the one thing that's really hard to mitigate is your own damage, unless you want to crawl and kite all day.

Totems are overpowered? Why? Well it's not their raw damage, because they always cast/attack slower and do less damage. It's the fact that you can freely stack crit multiplier on totems for no penalty because you don't have to worry about one-shotting yourself to reflect. If there was no reflect in the game, you'd see all sorts of self-cast crit builds out there that do absolutely fine.