Vaal spark

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eragon1111 wrote:

It's faster than ANY Coc Discharge

CoC Discharge Plateau in 3:04, Vaal Spark 3:10.

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eragorn1111 wrote:

And it does it in full MF gear!!

CoC Discharge 2:44 Gorge Wearing 300iir/100iiq.

And it can do this.

Vaal Spark is just a better than average clearspeed build, only slightly OP compared to chain bow or wand.

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Sogolon wrote:

It is overpowered as second character with a bit of mf. Because the clear speed is so insane on some maps you can very effectively farm dried lake, pick up rares do chaos recipe a lot faster than anyone else. You're clearing dried lake about 8-9 times faster than regular strong builds with that level of gear.

It doesn't even require a lot of investment anymore. Not at all compared to builds requiring similar investment but have less results. If you clear dried lake so much faster than anyone else you're raking up experience also so fast that you can just sit there until 95 or so, then buy plateau / gorge maps with all the chaos you got from the recipe and go to 100 with 2 minute full clear runs.

Oh no, guys, there's an OP second build that can farm dried lake, but can't map effectively because it has a hard time killing bosses, can't get first 100 because it's too expensive at start of league, can't affect races, and gets clowned by Soul Eater and Union of Souls.

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Vaal spark is actually more broken than those crit builds were, and they required way more investment than a mere 10 to 20 exalted orbs. Besides that you farm 10 exalted orbs pretty quickly with its clear speed on dried lake as vaal spark.

Not sure what relevance this really has on the topic at hand. I doubt most people here are disputing that vaal spark is strong and perhaps broken, I think most people are concerned with how it gets nerfed rather then how much, although both play huge roles in terms of the greater balance.

Exalted orbs come easier then they have ever in the past, with the exception of SC temp leagues, which I dare not say anything about with the 70-80 chaos to exalt ratios they have there. From my perspective exalted orbs are essentially worth twice what they were even one year ago, due to inflation and various nerfs and the power per exalt seems much higher then people may realize, which leads to much more discussion then I think is warranted in this very specific topic, but I can go into more details if people think its necessary.

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It doesn't have to just be a hard cool down. They could make it so you could chain VS two or three times before a 20 second or so cool down began, kind of like traps.

Again thats still a targeted limit and IMO defeats the purpose that people should build around vaal skills, whats next they nerf the vaal ground slam build because it can chain them as well and put a cooldown as well? Its not the design that others and I have fell in love with in PoE to allow for people to build around things without placing HARD limits on things. We already have way more hard limits in PoE then I think is healthy for the game, there has to be a better way then to just place a hard limit on things, I hate cooldown limit moreso then almost every other idea.

I think I would rather see perhaps diminishing returns on subsequent vaal sparks.

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What a complete BS response without any valid point. How does that answare to question "why should 10 ex build be 10 time more effective im clearing than previous MIRRORED fastest build and gear?". Like wtf do you even read?

Like WTF do you even read what I post. You are comparing 2 vastly different playstyles and gearing levels. This is the largest mistake people make when they try to discuss a skill and its power level. You cannot compare 2 things directly and say BUT MEH BUILD DOESN'T CLEAR AS FAST. That isn't a logical discussion anyone can have. We cannot see your build, your items, your dps, your videos, your playstyle, so how on earth can we have a topic about YOUR BUILD and even generalized statements like MIRRORED GEAR. Like that isn't a topic anyone can discuss with you, especially with your tone.

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It's faster than ANY mirrored Coc Discharge, Reave, Chain Split arrow, old burn prolif, anything by a mile.
And it does it in full MF gear!! With investment of 10-20 ex.

Yeah it doesn't do every map faster and it doesn't do bosses like you describe. Again with you comparing it to builds nothing like it.

I'm not saying vaal spark doesn't need nerfed, it needs adjusted for sure. But people here, including you are rash in the discussion and just call for ignorant nerfs.

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Whats the point in going for anything else as endgame farmer ?

O idk, because there are like 100 different skills, a vast skill tree, those said uniques are fairly rare and require gear to get going. You know like the other builds in the game. The playstyle also focuses more on moving and less on looting a large amount of items.

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Scale :
Fastest morrored gear headhunter chain split arrow george run ~ 2 min
Regular VS posted by Havoc - 45 sec ...

I dont need next league where everyone with cash runs only one build...

Yeah lets just compare builds like this, can't argue against that.

Vaal Spark is a gimmick build. It AOE farms. Thats it. It cant uber and cant do phased bosses (which pretty much all of the T15 bosses are.

Its fine. It does what it does well, but isnt dominant at every aspect of POE.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

It's faster than ANY Coc Discharge

CoC Discharge Plateau in 3:04, Vaal Spark 3:10.

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eragorn1111 wrote:

And it does it in full MF gear!!

CoC Discharge 2:44 Gorge Wearing 300iir/100iiq.

And it can do this.

Vaal Spark is just a better than average clearspeed build, only slightly OP compared to chain bow or wand.

You compared a speed run from the so-called best coc build in the game to some random guy using vaal spark on a 5L, and the so-called best coc build in the game was only 6 seconds faster? Yet, coc needs a nerf but vaal spark is just better than average? I don't follow.

Anyway, well built (and played) vaal spark consistently clears plateau much, much faster than 3:04. Using 3:10 is not accurate as a benchmark for top speed.

I just watched an old VOD of havoc casually clearing volcano in 2 mins with vaal spark. He wasn't even trying to race, chatting casually the whole time. Then right after he cleared plateau in ~2:30.
And this was in the 1 month flashback league, with beyond (and all the other mods), without legacy gear, without mirrored gear.

http://www.twitch.tv/havoc616/v/23604705
I started watching at 10 mins. [every plateau I see him do is under 3 mins]

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TheAshmaker wrote:

Vaal Spark is a gimmick build. It AOE farms. Thats it. It cant uber and cant do phased bosses (which pretty much all of the T15 bosses are.

Its fine. It does what it does well, but isnt dominant at every aspect of POE.

Almost every build in poe is measured by "How fast it can farm". And VS is best, no competition at all. With VS you will farm always the fastest. Where is drawback ? Its best, end, finito. For same investment no build can farm as fast or even close.

Lvl 100 in mf gear in 130 h. Im sure ppl dont want it to be nerfed because they already DID invest those 10 ex to be god farmer.

Is it good for the game to have ONE superior farming build to everything else, hell no.

Look, 130 hours of play time to 100 is actually pretty average these days. Havoc did it in about 95 with SRS, and there's nothing about SRS that prevents it from being used with MF gear, either. In fact, there's almost nothing that prevents any fast-clear build from picking up ~200% MF -- aside from gear costs, obviously -- unless they need a half-dozen unique items to function.

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eragon1111 wrote:

Almost every build in poe is measured by "How fast it can farm". And VS is best, no competition at all. With VS you will farm always the fastest. Where is drawback ? Its best, end, finito. For same investment no build can farm as fast or even close.

Lvl 100 in mf gear in 130 h. Im sure ppl dont want it to be nerfed because they already DID invest those 10 ex to be god farmer.

Is it good for the game to have ONE superior farming build to everything else, hell no.

It's not superior, it has pros and cons. The pro is that it's 10-20% faster than anything else, the cons are multiple: it's momentum based, it can't do hard bosses, and it's not as good in parties.

For example I have 80-90% of the clearspeed of VSpark with CoC discharge, but I can stop and go vendor whenever I want, and I can do atziri as well as most of the bosses up to T13 in full mf gear (300/150).

In that 2:30 (actually it starts at 13:21 and ends at 16:15ish so 2:50ish) Plateau HvC doesn't even stop to pick up currency like Scours/Fusing. And he certainly isn't using MF gear there, nor is there any point to using Vaal Spark with MF gear if you can't stop to pick up anything. For the Zana mission he says "I will go back because I don't want to loose momentum." Meanwhile my 2:44 gorge is in actual MF gear, and I can stop whenever I want to pick stuff up or vendor.

I'll never understand the "NERF EVERYTHING!!!" whining on these forums. Never.

Like, when your boss offers you a raise, do you decline to him, citing that "it would be too easy for me to spend money on a new TV or a vacation now, please nerf my check"?

There are so many builds that can clear the whole screen, and it definitely has some serious flaws.

People get too worked up over other players being faster and better than them.

EDIT: The guy above me gets it. Thank god for brains.

Havoc has someone who picks stuff up after him most of the time with vaal spark, as he said in a long interview with zizaran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Espu5PZedk8 you will be slow to get going with vall spark, then you will be faster then everyone else then when your exp gains drop from having volcano/plateau (not 100% sure about this) as the highest tier you can do you will fall behind.
Also remember you have no real defences outside ms, and freeze and 7k es.
I like the build as i like really fast gameplay but i dont personally play it.