Defensive Problems; Melee, Evasion, Energy Shield, Auto Attacks and Physical Damage

The difference between AR and EV is the investment commitment.

If you wanna go AR your going to have to dedicate a lot towards it until you get returns that honestly mater.
(read= reducing giant skeletons hit substantially etc)

With evasion on the other hand, usually a single good gear piece (2000+ ev) and some minor investment will yield a substantial return in survive ability.

Sure you can push that investment, but it would be a foolish move when you can better spend those points towards other defensive forms which would yield more efficiency at that point.

AR = high investment defensive layer

EV = low investment defensive layer

That's all folks.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

The difference between AR and EV is the investment commitment.

If you wanna go AR your going to have to dedicate a lot towards it until you get returns that honestly mater.
(read= reducing giant skeletons hit substantially etc)

With evasion on the other hand, usually a single good gear piece (2000+ ev) and some minor investment will yield a substantial return in survive ability.

Sure you can push that investment, but it would be a foolish move when you can better spend those points towards other defensive forms which would yield more efficiency at that point.

AR = high investment defensive layer

EV = low investment defensive layer

That's all folks.

Peace,

-Boem-

I dont 100% agree there... sure the initial cost of evasion is low but it wont get you nowhere unless you are ranged.... as a melee char the amount of investment an evasion character needs to do to be able to survive end game is way more complicated than an armor character

Just my 3 ct ...
* Too many phys dmg spells.
* 50% less ES on Acrobatics is completely nonsensical, especially since that part of the tree focuses on ES/Eva.
* Too much oneshot potential from blue/white mobs without proper animation - affects armour as well, though.

My curent character is Pure Acro/Evasion with blinde and Enfeeble aura.

Its realy tanky, comperably to high end armor/reg./fortify/endurance charges build.

Most problems come from lack of endurance charges (3 are not worth bothering) to some extend but more so of lack of Fortify becouse its a Wand user.
Character is using knock back and Arrow Dancing so his defences are realy good.

Problem come from pure Phusical damage spells and i wont accept runing LC or TH, i will rather use Weapon swap Mechanic to pop fortify then to limit my build with Uniques in each slot.

I finde Blashemy 35% mana reservation real rip of after they nerf curse effectivnes in so many ways, you cant realy make mach use of aura passives and curse effectivnes to justify points spend. I dont even trie to teory craft such build no more as it usualy so edgy to begin with.

Only High end of my curent setup come from fact that Enfeeble reduce enemy damage, so its basicly build in Fortify of sort, if it whas not i bee one shot a loot.
I remember older games as Titan Quest when people actualy utilises weapon swap mechanic but gem sistem in this game can be problematic with auras and hot keys geting messed up and harsly limiting such moves.

"

ffogell wrote:

I dont 100% agree there... sure the initial cost of evasion is low but it wont get you nowhere unless you are ranged.... as a melee char the amount of investment an evasion character needs to do to be able to survive end game is way more complicated than an armor character

You don't have to agree, i am just stating the obvious for "pure defenses".

If your a melee evasion, obviously your going to have the layer up on defense, this is no difference then an armor user. This is just an intrinsic "melee" issue.

Arguably, most defensive layers benefit evasion melee more then armor melee in the sense that they offer greater reductions in total damage taken.

Endurance charges
Arctic armor
coil
taste
fortify

All are substantially more efficient on evasion melee then on armor melee.(since they are calculated on base value at the end)

Since your taking the full hit, they will offer more efficient total reduction.

Top it off with acro/phase acro/block or MoM and you can be very tanky with evasion even when playing melee.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

The difference between AR and EV is the investment commitment.

If you wanna go AR your going to have to dedicate a lot towards it until you get returns that honestly mater.
(read= reducing giant skeletons hit substantially etc)

With evasion on the other hand, usually a single good gear piece (2000+ ev) and some minor investment will yield a substantial return in survive ability.

Sure you can push that investment, but it would be a foolish move when you can better spend those points towards other defensive forms which would yield more efficiency at that point.

AR = high investment defensive layer

EV = low investment defensive layer

That's all folks.

Peace,

-Boem-

I couldnt say it better.

evasion is fine if they would do something against spells/hits that cant be evaded

maybe let half of your evasion (without! dex bonus) count as armor for things that cant be evaded

yes i know there are alot of things that help/male eva viable ( like endurace charges,fortify etec) but i really dont like a hard counter to a defensice mechanic

"

Ceryneian wrote:

Because GGG has been constantly nerfing EV mechanics to compensate for the power of bow users.

Yet they have been pushing and pushing new bow skills for a long time ...
I don't understand it.

You know what I never see anymore?
Claw builds.

Overleech was a GREAT mechanic they utterly destroyed, I wish they would bring it back for claw users. Used to be able to play dual claw evasion acrobaatics, and now that entire class playstile is GONE.

You can't even get to 50% block on a dual wielder anymore. It's just sad.
Best you can get is 42%, without using a unique claw or dagger.

Im currently playing ev/es caster
using grace, enfeeble for defense. 8.7 k evasion, in belt 2 jade flasks which boosts evasion to 21k, hp pool 6.7 k. Its really beefy build. And if it still gets ugly there are 3 zombie minions for distraction and two vaal summon skeletons (mostly for bosses).

But yeah, spells still is a problem, especially phys ones.

The only existing solution is spell block. But its not easy to get.

"

Boem wrote:

Endurance charges
Arctic armor
coil
taste
fortify

All are substantially more efficient on evasion melee then on armor melee.(since they are calculated on base value at the end)

Since your taking the full hit, they will offer more efficient total reduction.

Top it off with acro/phase acro/block or MoM and you can be very tanky with evasion even when playing melee.

Peace,

-Boem-

No one is saying melee EV can't be done. But OP is asking why AR melee is better than EV melee.

If your DPS is not significantly higher as EV melee than an AR melee build then I don't see the point. AR Facebreaker builds are hitting 200k+ damage.

At the end of the day the EV melee build will have way lower life than the AR build. The AR build has access to all that same mitigation crap plus way more life and way more ECs.

A lot of AR builds can also use block so it's not like they don't have any damage avoidance.

Let's not forget Immortal Call.

The AR guy if he wants can also incorporate blind and get an easy ~50% evasion just like that. Seems pretty nice if you ask me.

I also don't understand why people keep arguing LC is effective on EV build. The damage mechanic of LC actually synergizes very well with the armor mechanic. The reason LC is probably the best chest for EV builds is because all the other EV chests SUCK BALLZ.

Unless your DPS is ridiculously higher than AR melee - it's only a matter of time before you get one-shot any day and all that extra mitigation can't even save AR guys on 9k life - what about the EV melee guy on 5k life lol.