Solo Self-Found Support in 2.6.0

I think a SF league is great and it's good to see GGG doing something with it.

However I think it totally misses the point. In three years I don't recall seeing anyone brag about being SF. It gets mentioned a lot in the forums, but usually in response to some kind of build advice. Very often it's defensive, not bragging. I'm willing to bet that a large percentage of people who are SSF don't socialize at all, let alone brag.

I've been almost entirely SSF for three years, but I see little motivation to join a league as presented. Unless there is some kind of buff to drops, I don't see joining a SSF league as more than a one-time curiosity.

The obvious problem with buffing drops is exploitation by migrating to other leagues. Simple solution is to allow migration of characters, but not gear. That would mean either a use-it-or-lose-it league (like void racing leagues), or migrating to a perm SSF league. Either is fine with me, but I bet there would be serious protests if it was a void league.

In SSF there is no such thing as currency, except the very small amount used at vendors. An exalt is just an orb, with whatever intrinsic value it has. Same with the other higher level orbs, they are just orbs.

I would suggest killing two birds with one stone. Make a SSF league which is more crafting based. Where higher level orbs are used as orbs, and the drop rate increased dramatically. Maybe add more master crafting options. Make crafting an alterative to trading.

Maybe a compromise to not allowing migration of gear, is something like characters at level 80 can migrate one piece of gear, plus one gear per five levels above that. And it could only be done once per month or something.

It would also be nice to have at least some partying for people who play with friends. Make it perm allocation, and maybe limit it to a party of 2-3.

To be honest I don't even know why would this be needed nor wanted. You just have to uncheck every chat tab and completely ignore every standalone trading app (which is easier than reaching level 2) to already experience SSF. Why pour resources on something like this?

Edit: Just make and offline singleplayer mode and be done with it. Expect 2-billion dps items duped on day 2 after release, tho.

Edit 2: I still fail to understand why people want an offline singleplayer mode with online ladders. Because that's what it is.

Nice job guys!! Looking forward for SSF :D Looks awesome!!

I really love this! I do not play SSF much (mostly I make a ton of wacky builds per league, many of which require very specific uniques or the like), but I've done it now and then and I enjoy it. I'll definitely make an SSF character when this becomes available, though whether I'll do it in HC or SC is still up for debate.

Here's one thing that I think is EXCELLENT about SSF that all the people begging for higher drop rates are missing: not only is it about the challenge (which can also be interpreted as a grindfest; I get why some people aren't up for that), but about the entire experience. You cannot play SSF and expect it to feel like the current clearspeed/power creep meta.

What brings me back to SSF periodically, even though I don't really have a problem with the game as a trading-balanced environment and don't feel the need to 'prove' anything about being 'better' than people who party and trade, is pretty simple: nostalgia. I miss the days in early open beta where it took time and strategy to move through the zones, especially in higher difficulties, unless you had truly exceptional gear. (I suppose it should be noted here I've never paid much attention to the meta; perhaps clearspeed etc. really were as high back then with 'top builds' as they are now with average builds, but I highly doubt it.) I miss the fact that regals felt really special. I miss 5Ls feeling GREAT when you made one, not mandatory. The game doesn't feel like this anymore (and I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing; PoE like everything else changes over time, and expecting it not to is simply unrealistic). But to me, SSF really brings back the feeling of challenge and persistence and success against all odds that PoE originally had.

I guess in the end that's the big thing: you're dumped on the Twilight Strand with NOTHING. You carve your way step by step through an incredibly hostile land, making use of anything you can find, until you dominate Wraeclast with your newfound power. SSF really strengthens this feeling of being alone, naked, but determined to survive at all costs to a visceral level that current PoE in general just....doesn't.

I think this is a great idea, but I'm really curious to see how it is implemented. Keeping the game balance as it is now would be disaster I think... how many versions of the game have been tuned and tweaked to compensate for the myriad of users creating the top tier builds. And that pattern has been very well established... level til you can farm, get currency and fill out your build targeting the specific bits you need. Trade is a massive part of the game balance, without it players are at a huge disadvantage.

With SSF, it seems RNG and low probabilities for good stuff will prevent any but the most fortunate players from being successful.

If you adjust the game balance to allow SSF to be fun and successful, it seems then those players should never exit SSF because they would have an unfair advantage.

I've always played SSF and always will, it's really cool that you plan on supporting this play-style with this new option.

Thanks GGG.

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arthosg wrote:

I know you guys have made your mind about the ruleset, but PLEASE don't make the character/loot transferable, It'll hold a lot of ideas to benefit the SSF league back because it would affect other leagues.
Make the exalt drop ratio higher to benefit crafting (with everything untransferable) and it will be incredibly fun. It would be awesome as well if you make SSF temporary SC/HC leagues, I would play it for sure.

With item/character transfer, there are ways to make SSF easier without 'contaminating' the main leagues. An obvious one is to give extra drops, but the extra drops are 'bind on account' and can't be traded. (Obviously in the case of currency items, the 'bind on account' would then have to propagate through crafing and vendor recipes.)

That's kind of ugly though, and granting way too much loot would kill the spirit of SSF anyway. More interesting I think is to grant benefits to the player that are not directly related to item finding, but reduce the gear dependence some other way. For instance, if some support gem is deemed absolutely critical for the gem to be functional (making 4-link setups rather cramped), in SSF it could become an inherent aspect of the gem. Or if ES is known to be too weak in SSF and too strong in other leagues, make ES passives more or less powerful depending on whether you're in SSF or not. This kind bonus then wouldn't carry over to other leagues.

I can see the argument against, though: balancing the two modes separately like this means more work and may lead to SSF being seen as 'easy mode' for some builds, if the balance changes go too far. Instead, it might be better to look at ways to reduce gear dependence with a universal change to the game, but one that doesn't disrupt things for trading players. For instance, if it's feasible to craft an item that's somewhat worse than the best in slot unique, but does basically the same job, it's a godsend to SSFers but doesn't matter to players who are already wearing the unique (at worst, that unique loses some resale value).

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Harmona wrote:

To be honest I don't even know why would this be needed nor wanted. You just have to uncheck every chat tab and completely ignore every standalone trading app (which is easier than reaching level 2) to already experience SSF. Why pour resources on something like this?

Edit: Just make and offline singleplayer mode and be done with it. Expect 2-billion dps items duped on day 2 after release, tho.

Edit 2: I still fail to understand why people want an offline singleplayer mode with online ladders. Because that's what it is.

As presented I would agree with you. I have not read all the SSF threads. But I always assumed the purpose was so SSF play could be viable in a game where the RNG is designed around trading. In other words, better drops for SSF. I've made it to level 75-80 with a 3L main skill because I didn't get anything better, and ate up my few jews/fuses/chromes with no success. More recently in Breach I was using the same 2H weapon from A2C until the low 80s.

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saxisa wrote:

With SSF, it seems RNG and low probabilities for good stuff will prevent any but the most fortunate players from being successful.

If you adjust the game balance to allow SSF to be fun and successful, it seems then those players should never exit SSF because they would have an unfair advantage.

You're making assumptions in this post that aren't accurate.

First of all, what does "successful" mean? It sounds like you're taking it to mean "can clear everything super fast with no difficulty." Why on earth is that a good measure of successful? Why can't we use something like "progressing without dying in HC SSF" as succesful? Or "managed to make a really creative build with the odds and ends my first character found"?

And then you get into "fun." If SSF isn't fun for you, that's fine! Don't play it.

Your version of "fun" isn't everyone's version of fun. My version of "fun" isn't everyone's version of fun. That's something PoE has always catered to--variety, flexibility, creativity, almost unlimited options. For many people, SSF is fun WITHOUT any sort of boosted drop rate. That's the demographic GGG is targeting.

Also, you say "seems" a lot. If you haven't played SSF, how do you know what fun and successful mean in that context? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. And not just to level 10.