PoE 2 servers are restarting in: .
They should be back up in approximately .please remove orb of regret
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Yea I think the people saying they don't want the respect to be easier have not provided a convincing reason for why other than that it would make the game easier for casual players and based on that alone I don't see it changing because ggg seems to hate casual players
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" It'd make choices feel less significant. - 0 * - < _ > - * 0 -- 0 * - < _ > - * 0 -- 0 * - < _ > - * 0 -- 0 * - < _ > - * 0- 0 * - <
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" on the other hand you say, that getting regrets is easy enough - so the choices are already insignificant (for experienced players) for new players they too have a choice: spend another 1 month getting to 50 again OR quit before you say '1 month, lol' - think again. this is what new players are, they are NEW. and they WILL make mistakes. currently game DOES NOT help them make good choices but is very good punishing them for bad choices. you guys can be all elitist and arrogant ignoring the true casualty of your attitude - new players current situation repulses == no money from them == more MTX-centric development / less polish applied to the content. you are no longer main source of income for GGG. there are very very few old-timers compared to new players joining every expansion and you want to see them gone? just because it makes your elitist vision fullfiled? |
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" ya. it just breaks down the importance of choices, it breaks down the replayability of the game, it just does horrible things. When you strive for something you appreciate it more, things only have value when they take effort to achieve. If you can just whimsically respec to this build, play it for 2 minutes, meh ok, whatever lets respec to this, and then to this, and lets try this... its just so offhand, throwaway, no effort, no appreciation, no dedication, no sense of achievement, no sense of worth. They want us to feel invested in our characters, that the character is something, we had a goal, we set out and achieved it. Whole aspects of the game built around how to level a build, you want to end up here but that leaves you weak until you can spec this and equip that, how do you deal with that? Whole little metagames built around transition leveling, smart use of points spent here or there that can be switched to this other thing with a handful of the free respecs, find X skill that synergises with ur tree until Y skill becomes viable when you have Z passives and gear. So much is lost if you can just use any leveling spec and then jump to any endgame spec and then just keep nonchalantly bouncing between builds every 2 minutes, respec you char for this boss, jump to this spec for that boss, jump through 20 different builds in 2 hours and feel like youve experienced most of what a class has to offer right now and none of it carried any meaning, had any sense of attachment and is ultimately disposable, careless, cheap. Why would u spec armour for the vaal oversouls in pt1 of the atziri map? Its an ele fight, spec for ele damage, theres a lot of phys in the trio, respec, full armour, back to an ele defense for atziri, be this for the map, be that for the boss, why have a versitile build, why think about how to build around this weakness or that weakness when you can be a different build whenever you want? Why ever make compromises? Why ever try and balance? Why ever try to be versatile when you can just be the best thing for all things at all times? Its just a horrible idea that should never be implemented. I dont buy the new players argument. I was a new player once, and I am still here, and the reason the game has lasted so long and has felt so involving and compelling is because my choices mattered and the possibilities are like an ocean that I can never fully explore. Thats why its a good game, new players who want a good game stay for the good game, new players who want a shit game for simpletons can get lost and play one of the million other shit games out there, we dont need them, and this game doesnt need to complete with a million other disposable games that thrive today and die tomorrow endlessly when it has already carved a path to long term fortune by being one of the few good games. Pander to dullards today and they will drop the game tomorrow regardless because they are weaksauce, quick fix plebs whos flimsy shallow minds flit and flap about in the currents of whimsy and dont have the depth and dedication to give your game long term success no matter how much you try and please them. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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First of all, paying 2 exalted orbs is way too much money to respec. Period.
I think paying 50c is already enough, you have to remember players still need to buy gear for the respec as well. I'm just saying, one season I didn't feel like leveling another character 3 times so I respecced 4x. I do not think grinding to 85 helps you 'appreciate' what you accomplished more as you put it. As someone who has played over 4 seasons for POE and has almost 2k hours into this game, I gotta say that's a bunch of nonsense. I am def a non-casual player since I study so much into this game and use extensions like POB, but even I think that the cost of respeccing is BS. How many times have you ever respecced your char? If it's less than 10, then I don't think you really can say that it's 'easy to respec' since you don't do it often enough. 4 respecs (8 exalted orbs) will bankrupt most players, and most people don't have the currency to even do it once. I already do grind this game, I run maps, ROTAs, master quests, and farm bosses. Nobody loves leveling from 1-90, and if you do then you're projecting what you like and thinking the rest of the players enjoy the process and get some kind of 'appreciation' only you might be getting from grinding like that. Seriously, you're being ridiculous saying that lowering the price of a full respec will destroy the game when the truth is it would make this game so much better in every possible way, and this coming from someone who has experienced games go in that direction. |
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" its not easy, its appropriately expensive. 4 full respecs should bankrupt most players, you say that as if thats a case for making it cheaper. Good that they cant just respec all the time, or hardly ever. You say nobody loves 1-90, I think your projecting there. You are dismissing the idea that attachment and worth is gained through time invested, and you show no appreciation for the idea that its a game that starts at lvl1 and the challenge is to get to where ever it is you intend to get to, that there is a process there. Its not hey, try out all these cool endgame builds, that is not the game, the game is a challenge to go from 1 to whatever your goal is using the tools available. this is a game built around the idea of creating a sense of value in things, all the items you feel have a sense of value are rare, they are not common and taken for granted, all the levels that have a sense of value take a great deal of time to reach, all the content that feels rewarding to beat takes effort to beat. You might just shrug off the idea of the psychology behind creating a sense of value in aspects of the game via time, rarity, effort, but I dont and I dont think GGG do either. You might not enjoy leveling, but the phrase "easy come easy go" rings true. It doesnt matter if you enjoy leveling, that is not the point that is being made. I didnt enjoy running 100s, maybe 1000s of chaos recipes in harbinger in order to get a ton of money, but what I plan to do with that money is given a sense of value and appreciation by the effort it took to get it. If what I wanted to buy was as easy as buying a 1c leveling unique, it would not have that feeling of value to me, even if it was exactly the same thing. Its all just pixels, just like everything in the real world is just atoms, but things can have a sense of great value in both worlds and when you examine what it is that gives things a sense of value then you will understand the point Im making. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Both sides have great points, but what I would think would be a perfect middle solution, would be a few improvements regarding respeccing.
1. Making allocating/disabling skill points easier and more intuitive. If you have the spec/respec points, and you want to "cut/add branches" in the skill tree, you should be able to do so with fewer clicks (when cutting/adding branches they could also implement "warnings" so even n00bs would get that they must pay more attention at what they do). 2. Make Regrets provide a "book of Respec" that can be provided via an intricate difficult quest and/or a sensible cost of at least 80 - 90 Regrets. You need to either loose valuable time, or be rewarded with a moderate cost reduction when entertaining a respec at level 90. 3. Highlight better in the "help" system that the cost to respec a character is leaning on the expensive side and choices must be weighted for the impact not only regarding the present, but the future too. That would be all that is needed actually. Providing a "book of Respec" should make it so that at least once per character you need to pass a "rite of passage" and work your way towards that goal, so if a questline would make that journey interesting, having the option to "shave" a few Regrets for the convenience of not rerolling would be fair enough. You should always be invested in your characters, and their builds, so adding moderate convenience for people that want to remain invested without rerolling, seems like a perfect middle ground, as long as they do keep "working" on further improving their characters... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Sep 30, 2017, 11:25:09 PM
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" this paragraph is.. disturbing on SO MANY levels. very very disturbing. even if it is 'just' and overreaction it is very disturbing indeed as for the 'investment' into 1-to-maps: i feel forced to do it each time (50+ characters i think). there is very little fun, there is no attachment, there is nothing. im forced to do this chore to eat my fruit. i do not care about my character when i race to the maps. i do not care if kitava fight is 10 minutes of corpse-zerging. i do not care. i have to do it, ill do it with as little cost as possible. i do not care. but i can do it in < 8hours while watching a movie so i just waste these hours to be able to finally play my character if you think that this negative-emotion bond i make with the game while leveling is 'ok' then.. lets say im disturbed again the new players you mock so much: you confuse 'new' with 'idiots'. thats your first mistake. second: i hope you are ready to more than quadruple your spendings on this game to keep it afloat. without new players STAYING with this game it dies. games like POE thrive on throngs of people making their first and last purchase. they dwarf the income from long-terms. and current GAMEDESIGN (convoluted mess) + respec options (costly) makes new players QUIT. you played 10k hours? but your monetary investment is very low in terms of dolars per said hour compared to someone who purchased his stashtabs after 10 hours and then left. you cant replace economy with emotions and say to new players 'you are not worthy of my great f2p product' if you expect to survive as a business. ps. that paragraph.. it IS very disturbing on so many levels. |
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I'll entertain what you said about leveling. The first character grind is fine, IMO but every character after that is a brain dead climb. After you get your first character to maps, you get currency to buy twink leveling gear and you steam roll through all of the content. It's just a god damn joke and not at all fun because you're spamming some skill you don't want to play for hours on end in order to get to the point you want to be.
As for leveling up to 90+, this patch you have to grind to 60-70 with twink gear which you can do in about 4-6 hours of game time, then you spend your currency to buy a beachhead or poorjoys and join a rota and you're literally just running around leeching exp and not even playing the game in order for you to play the game. It is NOT fun, but it's the most efficient way to get to where you want to be. I only do this when I am building a char/build for a totally different class, but if I'm running the same class but a different build or ascendency, I will fork over the money gladly because my time is more valuable to me than spending it on something I hate doing. The point I'm making is, I spend a lot of time in the game, I grind and farm a lot so I have the luxury to do this, but other casual players don't. They're gated behind the exorbitant cost to respec their char + they're gated behind the time commitment required to level an entirely new char, and it's even longer for them if they don't know all the tricks to speed running like older players might. So people get bored, they leave and the league goes dead. How is that good? Yes, I agree we shouldn't make it free, but it should be WAYYYY cheaper and easier to access than the way it is now. POE is an extremely high depth game, and sorry but some people like myself get bored after leveling high with the same char and we want to try something new to see if we like it. Either make respec token something you can buy in MTX since we're gating the noobs with the 2 ex+ price to just reskill (btw encouraging people who don't have the in-game currency to go to 3rd party RMT sites) or as the person above me suggested, make it some kind of optional end-game quest you can get access to as many time as you want for a cost. My best example was that I played AW necromancer one season, then I got bored and respecced to SRS, then I got bored and respecced into a fire nova occultist, then a flameblast elementalist, and then an aurabot necro again. The raw points needed alone were 8 exalted worth of regrets, but I also spent more as I specced into certain trees/keystones to see how it felt then specced back out which required anywhere between 5-40 regrets to make the round trip or move. Yea, it feels nice to have a lot of in game money to dump on stuff like this, but A. I was never happy about having to spend that much to do it or click that many times rather than press 1 button (which nobody gives a sh*t about), and B. I knew if I didn't have the money I wouldn't have either respecced or leveled a new witch. I would have just stopped playing the game or made a different class. Last edited by ironstove#2303 on Oct 1, 2017, 7:11:17 AM
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" no, its not disturbing at all. What is pathetic is the constant bringing up of new players to justify stuff from people who are not new players and want something changed for themselves. " no, YOU are confusing new players with idiots, go read my post again. YOU are the one talking about new players with such contempt that you suggest new players just want an easy game where they dont get punished for mistakes and they get to respec whenever they want and they dont want a game where they have to invest time and effort. That is YOU, not me, you are saying new players are idiots and we should make the game a bit more shit because it would be better for these idiot new players. I am saying that the new players who want to play a good game stick around and the ones that dont leave. " again, you want it, but it has to be easier not because of you, but because of the new players, the poor players. Sry that you dont enjoy playing the game, but personally I dont buy into the idea that they should compromise the game because you dont enjoy playing it and only want to try out endgame builds. If I dont enjoy playing the game and all I want to do is craft endgame gear should I be able to buy currency to craft with from the mtx store in case Im a noob who doesnt have time, knowledge and patience to grind for my own currency, and to hell with the consequences on the actual full game the way it supposed to be played? Grinding 200 exalts is not fun and it gates noobs from being able to do it, hence an argument is made for an mtx or a quest that gives you 200ex to craft a worthy item? And I want it, a player who is capable of grinding 200ex myself, but Im using this example of a poor player who wants this that Ive just made up in my head as a reason why I should have this? You think that sort of reasoning actually stands up? I dont. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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