widescreen resolution removed from the game.

So much noise about rather or not the 32:9 advantage is a problem, all while completely ignoring the substance of the matter:

1) this is a noncompetitive PvE game
2) tons of advantages (hardware and software) are available to players who invest time or money into getting them
3) black bars are not an acceptable solution if 32:9 needs to be fixed


Specious argument after specious argument after specious argument. That's all the pro black bar crew has.

1 year, 295 days

Fix it
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Jun 8, 2024, 8:35:07 AM
"
tackle70 wrote:
1) this is a noncompetitive PvE game

Mwahaha
I have bunch of persons who would strongly disagree with ya :D
Auctioneer House - is a MUST!
'POE2' is not 'POE1 2.0'! https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3614313
"
Echothesis wrote:
.

Actually, what i did was simply repost the arguments made pages ago that we were supposed to "Take notes - this is how you actually make good arguments", which is even more hilarious you didn't catch up to. What's more hilarious is that the first thing

Spoiler
"
ArtCrusade wrote:
How have we gone from "Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments."

Spoiler
"
tackle70 wrote:
"
Ulsarek wrote:
How this is still up for debate is beyond me. GGG put a limit in place because the game was never designed for such resolutions and actively broke the game. Just because it wasn't apparent to the average user doesn't mean those problems didn't exist.

Just from the top of my head, to name a few:
• You could see entities spawning in at the edge of your screen and position or navigate accordingly
• More often than not said entities weren't even properly loading in, t-posing wasn't uncommon
• As stated by GGG themselves, such resolutions caused unintended behaviour and fucked with their server load
• Major advantage, you could essentially offscreen packs and bosses with little effort
• Bosses don't have infinite enmity range, some could be offscreened without them even moving towards the player
• You couldn't click on the map or loot items beyond a certain area on your screen

There was even a popular case 4 years ago during the China race where the streamer Ventrua used a very wide resolution to offscreen Baran with Essence Drain during said race. He pretty much sat at the edge of the arena and slowly killed the boss without the boss even moving. This could be applied to many bosses and thus indeed is beyond broken and a unfair advantage. (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/i7qq7n/ventrua_exploiting_ultrawide_in_china_race/)

32:9 and beyond working in the first place was an oversight. GGG most likely never thought of it and once they started to identify problems a solution was applied.

One could argue black bars are a bad solution but then again it isn't uncommon in the industry and much easier to implement than fixing whatever else gets broken by these ridiculous resolutions. Elden Ring also doesn't allow widescreen for these reasons. GGG did the right thing here.

Besides widescreen still works, 21:9 is a significant upgrade over 16:9 but doesn't break anything.


Take notes everyone - this is how you actually make good arguments.

I don't agree, as I've argued throughout this thread, that these points validate the decision to "solve" the problem by implementing black bars in the main game. I agree that 32:9 (and, I would argue, even 21:9) should be banned from races and PvP modes, but black bars are the laziest and most clumsy possible "fix" for the main game.

For one thing, it's an overstatement to say 32:9 broke the game. Every instance you mention of 32:9 "breaking" something in the regular noncompetitive modes could have been solved by bug fixes or fog of war, either of which would be a far better solution.

I also would argue that GGG's "my servers are melting" reasoning is complete nonsense and just them grasping at straws to justify a lazy design choice. This issue affects something on the order of 0.5% of their players. That's just not significant enough to meaningfully affect their overall server load. Also, it is not right for a company to pass problems on their backend off to their paying customers. Players pay GGG so they can support their staff and all their technical backend. Slapping black bars on player screens to save 1% server load is not acceptable, particularly for a company their size.

GGG did the lazy thing here, not the right thing. Bug fixes and/or possibly a fog of war or FoV system would be GGG doing the right thing.


To what I can only call gaslighting right here:

Spoiler
"
tackle70 wrote:
"
Echothesis wrote:
So far haven't seen an argument against what I said 2 pages ago, about why the rest of black bars solution working rather poorly and should either be fixed or removed.


There are no defensible arguments in favor of black bars, and none have been offered in 1 year, 291 days.

Fix it.


Actually downright toxic.


And since you asked, authority is meaningless, facts is what dictates conversations. Someone can be the best coder in the world, but even that person isn't immune to mistakes or being wrong, that's why "call to authority" is one of the oldest and dumbest fallacies.

I'm not shutting anyone out, i'm asking to stick to the facts, and the facts are, the people against you shoot facts and you shoot opinions. Fact: more screen = more information. Your opinion: it's not advantageous. Fact: the devs never intended for anyone to see the cut out for animations. Your opinion: We want to see it anyway. Fact: we directly say something objectively. Your opinion: you cherry pick and evade, then cry when we do the same.

Discussions are meant to enlighten both parties to reach a consensus and discover the truth. What's obvious for anyone is that all of you don't give a fuck about truth. You don't care about GGG, how much they would need to change the game to fit your needs, or how much it would cost, even still seeing things they, again, never meant anyone to see past a certain point, you only care that your toy got taken away and want it back by any means necessary. And THAT is the fact.
"
tackle70 wrote:
Specious argument after specious argument after specious argument. That's all the pro black bar crew has.

Tantrum, rhetoric and fallacies. That's all the pro wide screeners crew has.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support].
Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro#4713 on Jun 8, 2024, 10:38:42 AM
The very fact that tackle doesn‘t address any of that should tell you enough, AdRon. That‘s why I started pasting the same comment every time he says „no good arguments are being offered“ which is highly disrespectful for anyone partaking in the somehow still ongoing discussion
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
Indeed, that last phrase was just a reply in the same coin.

To be fair, this is a last ditch effort to try and cut the bullshit and lay all the cards on the table with Echo, which i'm sensing it won't work either, but as he said, one can hope.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support].
Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro#4713 on Jun 8, 2024, 10:39:02 AM
"
tackle70 wrote:
So much noise about rather or not the 32:9 advantage is a problem, all while completely ignoring the substance of the matter:

1) this is a noncompetitive PvE game
2) tons of advantages (hardware and software) are available to players who invest time or money into getting them
3) black bars are not an acceptable solution if 32:9 needs to be fixed


Specious argument after specious argument after specious argument. That's all the pro black bar crew has.

1 year, 295 days

Fix it


1. It is competitive both in-game economy and irl with racing. Just because you don't play it competitively doesn't magically make it so.
2. Those advantages don't rely on breaking the game.
3. black bars aren't bad, if you think they are so bad just buy a new monitor.

Ignoring any argument and calling it specious is all you can do.

1 year 295 days since GGG fixed the resolution issue. Thank you GGG
Can I also point out that the phrase "unreliable black bars" was also used by the arpg developer. Because, as far as reliability goes, I'm pretty sure black bars are the epitome of reliable. They are always there and never change! They equalize the field of vision for everyone.

Unreliable was the shifting graphics and field of vision from the technically unsupported ultrawide. In fact, it was probably this unreliability that led to the fix in the first place, creating a more reliable graphic across more devices as far as the GGG developers were concerned.

I know, I know....gotta hate those pesky semantics and making a cogent, truthful argument with them! It would be so much easier if we could just say whatever we want and be accepted as correct without folks like me who like to nitpick incorrect statements! God I wish I wasn't on the forum to point these things out!
Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jun 8, 2024, 3:42:50 PM
"
AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

...
I'm not shutting anyone out, i'm asking to stick to the facts, and the facts are, the people against you shoot facts and you shoot opinions. Fact: more screen = more information. Your opinion: it's not advantageous. Fact: the devs never intended for anyone to see the cut out for animations. Your opinion: We want to see it anyway. Fact: we directly say something objectively. Your opinion: you cherry pick and evade, then cry when we do the same.
...


This is more like it:) Yet could you please not stop at the most convenient point and elaborate further, with poe specifics?

- Axiom 1: character projectile build dealing enough damage to oneshot any mob in the game will deal such damage regardless of mob relative position to the player, and allow completing maps as fast as it would take to walk though the map if map was empty.

- Conclusion 1: character projectile build with lacking dps will offer reduced time to complete map by math of dps vs total hitpoints of mobs in the map.

- Conjecture 1: Completing content faster is desirable goal for majority of PoE players.

- Conclusion 2: if character lacks projectile dps, mobs will have more opportunities to attack and possibly kill character, further increasing map completion time.

- Conjecture 2: Exploiting limited AI reaction radius combined with increased player vision area makes it possible for a projectile build to imitate situation equivalent to mobs never attacking.

- Conclusion 3: Conclusion 1 remains true even if all mobs would stand still and never attack.

- Generalization: Achievement of desirable goal for majority of PoE players remains strongly dependent on build dps, and has no direct correlation with mobs ability to attack the character, outside of specific circumstances described in conclusion 2.

- Conclusion 4: if mobs attack capabilities are deemed as hindrance to achieving desirable goal, eliminating mobs attack capabilites alone would still not increase map completion time to time described in Axiom 1 if character lacks projectile dps.

- Conclusion 5: Empowering a character with overwhelming dps provides fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players regardless of mobs attack capabilities presence

- Conclusion 6: Fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities, including one known as "Ultrawide aspect ratio attack range".

So, which of the above is wrong and/or does not draw on facts? I can address your other point also, but will spare you another wall of text... for now :)
"
Echothesis wrote:
.

Just want to make sure before i answer, are these your or someonelses conclusions? Do you believe in these statements or are they just a summary of something others are saying?
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support].
Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro#4713 on Jun 9, 2024, 7:28:25 AM
"
Dozer72 wrote:
"
tackle70 wrote:
So much noise about rather or not the 32:9 advantage is a problem, all while completely ignoring the substance of the matter:

1) this is a noncompetitive PvE game
2) tons of advantages (hardware and software) are available to players who invest time or money into getting them
3) black bars are not an acceptable solution if 32:9 needs to be fixed


Specious argument after specious argument after specious argument. That's all the pro black bar crew has.

1 year, 295 days

Fix it


1. It is competitive both in-game economy and irl with racing. Just because you don't play it competitively doesn't magically make it so.
2. Those advantages don't rely on breaking the game.
3. black bars aren't bad, if you think they are so bad just buy a new monitor.

Ignoring any argument and calling it specious is all you can do.

1 year 295 days since GGG fixed the resolution issue. Thank you GGG


1) We've been over this. The game is by definition not competitive in it's main modes. Calling a rose by another name doesn't change that it's a rose. Nobody here is in favor of 32:9 for the competitive modes (PvP, racing). PoE is exactly as competitive as Skyrim and Solitaire.

2) So fix the bugs/problems. GGG is not a small indie dev and this is not a argument in support of black bars.

3) What a bunch of nonsense. Play at 4:3 on your 16:9 screen and see what you think of black bars.

1 year, 296 days

Fix it
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Jun 9, 2024, 8:18:38 AM

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