Trade in PoE is not good and takes away from immersion

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

> "we know the reasons why GGG designed the trade system the way it is"
> "you cant know that you are not part of their team!!"
> "well duh did you even read the trade manifesto my dude?"
> "uuuuuuuuuh they should take away your right to trade!"

What a trainwreck of a conversation.

To circle back and get away from how ridiculous this recent arc was: OP says that anything would be better than the current trade system. Others have pointed out that there are many ways to do trade wrong, to the detriment of the playerbase - with examples. We do know why trade is designed the way it is, all that information is in the Trade Manifesto which is not outdated.

GGG's stance:

"

Consequences of Easy Trade

-Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
-Easy trade means reducing drop rates
-Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
-Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation

These are just the main arguments against easy trade as seen by GGG, the people who have actual oversight on the impact of trade, how often people trade, how they trade, what they trade and so on and so forth.

It IS outdated and quoted points are irrelevant:

-Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
How it is even relevant? I could find the perfect items for my build and buy them - the only matter is the price, not automatization.

-Easy trade means reducing drop rates
How it's even relevant? Any sane reasoning behind this?

-Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
It is great already and long ago and seems nobody cares about that, at least - doing nothing here

-Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation
What does this even mean? It is already abused in all ways, like online check
How automatization would make it worse?

We're pivoting from one indefensible argument to the next! Just because it's truly funny, just check the news from then before we head on:

https://www.gamingbible.com/news/ps5-scalpers-desperately-sell-consoles-for-way-cheaper-300163-20230417
https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/19/ps5-is-selling-five-times-more-than-last-year-as-scalpers-cut-prices-18638284/
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-56270058

Just to link a few articles. Utterly ridiculous to say scalping didn't occur or had no effect on market price.

It was brought up to show how shorting a market works on a real word thing that has limited availability. This can be transfered to PoE items such as rare uniques or currencies (mirrors, magebloods, original sin etc.) because the supply is low but there is constant demand. This is market 101 whether you want to "believe" it or not. Reality doesn't budge to your fantasies.

"

SilverWF wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

> "we know the reasons why GGG designed the trade system the way it is"
> "you cant know that you are not part of their team!!"
> "well duh did you even read the trade manifesto my dude?"
> "uuuuuuuuuh they should take away your right to trade!"

What a trainwreck of a conversation.

To circle back and get away from how ridiculous this recent arc was: OP says that anything would be better than the current trade system. Others have pointed out that there are many ways to do trade wrong, to the detriment of the playerbase - with examples. We do know why trade is designed the way it is, all that information is in the Trade Manifesto which is not outdated.

GGG's stance:

"

Consequences of Easy Trade

-Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
-Easy trade means reducing drop rates
-Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
-Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation

These are just the main arguments against easy trade as seen by GGG, the people who have actual oversight on the impact of trade, how often people trade, how they trade, what they trade and so on and so forth.

It IS outdated and quoted points are irrelevant:

-Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
How it is even relevant? I could find the perfect items for my build and buy them - the only matter is the price, not automatization.

-Easy trade means reducing drop rates
How it's even relevant? Any sane reasoning behind this?

-Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
It is great already and long ago and seems nobody cares about that, at least - doing nothing here

-Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation
What does this even mean? It is already abused in all ways, like online check
How automatization would make it worse?

Again you are trying to will away the inconvenient reality because you cannot reconcile actual facts with whatever you made up in your mind.

1) Easy trade means I can quickly pick up the perfect gear for my current budget and upgrade slot by slot. I am less inclined to trade for my small gear upgrades if there is friction to the trade (such as having to go to a website, setting the search filters, checking through a list of potential items, contacting the seller, maybe haggling the price, then joining a party, moving to their hideout, completing the trade down to.... click & buy).

This is basic.

2) You'd have sane reasoning for this if you had bothered reading the trade manifesto. I believe you are capable of using the forum search function, or at least I hope you are

3) I feel silly explaining bots to you, but it should suffice to show you what Arbitrage means.

Trade is immensely more complex and has bigger implications on the game than it is now safe to assume you understand.

How can you even think that you could know better than GGG if you don't even understand basic market concepts from the real world? Especially considering they have the data and you don't

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

We're pivoting from one indefensible argument to the next! Just because it's truly funny, just check the news from then before we head on:

https://www.gamingbible.com/news/ps5-scalpers-desperately-sell-consoles-for-way-cheaper-300163-20230417
https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/19/ps5-is-selling-five-times-more-than-last-year-as-scalpers-cut-prices-18638284/
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-56270058

Just to link a few articles. Utterly ridiculous to say scalping didn't occur or had no effect on market price.

It was brought up to show how shorting a market works on a real word thing that has limited availability. This can be transfered to PoE items such as rare uniques or currencies (mirrors, magebloods, original sin etc.) because the supply is low but there is constant demand. This is market 101 whether you want to "believe" it or not. Reality doesn't budge to your fantasies.


Again you are trying to will away the inconvenient reality because you cannot reconcile actual facts with whatever you made up in your mind.

1) Easy trade means I can quickly pick up the perfect gear for my current budget and upgrade slot by slot. I am less inclined to trade for my small gear upgrades if there is friction to the trade (such as having to go to a website, setting the search filters, checking through a list of potential items, contacting the seller, maybe haggling the price, then joining a party, moving to their hideout, completing the trade down to.... click & buy).

This is basic.

2) You'd have sane reasoning for this if you had bothered reading the trade manifesto. I believe you are capable of using the forum search function, or at least I hope you are

3) I feel silly explaining bots to you, but it should suffice to show you what Arbitrage means.

Trade is immensely more complex and has bigger implications on the game than it is now safe to assume you understand.

You need to assume nothing about anyone, at least - because this is break the rules.
Remember that

Then

1. That's what anyone could do right NOW. And with POE overlay no even need to go for any site, lol
The only difference is contacting to seller which is DUMB, because he isn't shop, but the same user minding his own business

2. I read it (as you may notice from my previous posts) and found all that reasons OUTDATED, as I typed above.

3. Can't be implemented to this game economy with nearly unlimited and free source of goods. (Jesus, why I should even type that - isn't it obvious?)

4. You ain't have the data too, so stop defending

"

SilverWF wrote:

It IS outdated and quoted points are irrelevant

Can you give as a link where GGG stated it is outdated? -_-

Declining what GGG wrote doesn’t make it outdated/invalid.

"

SilverWF wrote:

You doesn't know what GGG thinks - you ain't part of their team.

"

SilverWF wrote:

4. You ain't have the data too, so stop defending

I'm not the one saying I know better than GGG and your "rules for thee but not for me" don't work on a public forum.

"

SilverWF wrote:

3. Can't be implemented to this game economy with nearly unlimited and free source of goods. (Jesus, why I should even type that - isn't it obvious?)

You realise people are already doing this, only manually? Bots too? You do know that, right? People still have to respond to the trade posting, but imagine what that'd be like if you don't even have to physically invite someone to your party and visit their hideout.

Again, you are too short-sighted.

If you cannot even explain why the Trade Manifesto is "outdated" I'll have to put this under "I disagree based on personal bias" just like the rest of what you said. There's very little to go off from as is, and any sane person would take a step back and reflect on the reason why you are getting schooled on these topics.

The intellectual dishonesty is off the charts.

"

Nomancs wrote:

"

SilverWF wrote:

It IS outdated and quoted points are irrelevant

Can you give as a link where GGG stated it is outdated? -_-

Declining what GGG wrote doesn’t make it outdated/invalid.

"

SilverWF wrote:

You doesn't know what GGG thinks - you ain't part of their team.

I said they are outdated and repeated this 2 or 3 times already

I said that, many times already

You can repeat it million times and still it will not make it outdated - only GGG could.

"

Nomancs wrote:

You can repeat it million times and still it will not make it outdated - only GGG could.

Everyone could

EVERYONE and without 'high' allowance.

We are not pigs, we are humans and should fight for our rights

GGG also ain't touched anyone and anything what were explioted in the insane amounts at the start of the league - do you support them in this too?

If yes - there is nothing to discuss with you anymore.

Then go for it and edit trade manifesto if you think you can, lol.

(pssst, this is a videogame, if you don’t like it or think that someone strip you from some rights - you don’t have to play it).

SO it is 'if yes' case, I see