what happend to GGG?

"

askreet wrote:

I wouldn't presume to just scale the staff to solve all these problems. Adding more people makes organization harder. I think we all benefit from the fact that GGG is a medium sized company, and not a behemoth bureaucracy.

Not to forget it takes a good while to familiarize yourself with the code. It often takes half a year in a "normal" job to get up to speed

Damn just learned about this 4 month thing. =(


Was really looking forward to new league in july. damn

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

You can stand by your assumption all you like and call it "common sense" but it remains an opinion informed by your personal bias, a gut feeling. There may or may not be merit to it.

The only thing they would get involved with is profit, and thus monetization. We're talking MTX and supporter packs there, which have seen an evolution over time. More special effects and such rather than reskinning armour, skill mtx and such. But we already had supporter packs, stash tabs and loot boxes before Tencent.

Yes, and we also pretty much "know" (even though it can't be literally proven) that mtx sales are directly related to gameplay, meta, balance, and time. In the likely scenario that Tencent is involved in "profit", which even you admit is possible and probable, then they are ALSO going to be involved in all the things that have an effect on that profit.

It's NOT just mtx, special effects, reskinning, and such. There is a lot more that goes into WHY certain things will be popular enough to make as much money as possible.

And yes...we had all these things before tencent. The problem is the increased focus on them post-tencent. Previously they were secondary to the game development because the audience was small, the company was small, and the priorities were different. Now, the company is WAY bigger, the priority is MONEY, and the control is in a different house.

And lets be honest here....you are heavily calling me out on "unprovable" assumptions. Yet your responses to my posts are all exactly the same thing, albeit with far less probability and logic behind them. Yet you state them with such certainty as to completely ignore and discount everything I stated.

So who's being impudent here?

I can't "prove" that tencent has control over specific development aspects of this game. But logic, business, and common sense dictates they do exert SOME control, and my "opinion" is that they exert a larger amount of control than you or even I can even dream they do. Just because we don't have the same crap that the Chinese server has does not mean that our servers aren't controlled in much the same way, albeit more covertly.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

You can stand by your assumption all you like and call it "common sense" but it remains an opinion informed by your personal bias, a gut feeling. There may or may not be merit to it.

The only thing they would get involved with is profit, and thus monetization. We're talking MTX and supporter packs there, which have seen an evolution over time. More special effects and such rather than reskinning armour, skill mtx and such. But we already had supporter packs, stash tabs and loot boxes before Tencent.

Yes, and we also pretty much "know" (even though it can't be literally proven) that mtx sales are directly related to gameplay, meta, balance, and time. In the likely scenario that Tencent is involved in "profit", which even you admit is possible and probable, then they are ALSO going to be involved in all the things that have an effect on that profit.

It's NOT just mtx, special effects, reskinning, and such. There is a lot more that goes into WHY certain things will be popular enough to make as much money as possible.

And yes...we had all these things before tencent. The problem is the increased focus on them post-tencent. Previously they were secondary to the game development because the audience was small, the company was small, and the priorities were different. Now, the company is WAY bigger, the priority is MONEY, and the control is in a different house.

And lets be honest here....you are heavily calling me out on "unprovable" assumptions. Yet your responses to my posts are all exactly the same thing, albeit with far less probability and logic behind them. Yet you state them with such certainty as to completely ignore and discount everything I stated.

So who's being impudent here?

I can't "prove" that tencent has control over specific development aspects of this game. But logic, business, and common sense dictates they do exert SOME control, and my "opinion" is that they exert a larger amount of control than you or even I can even dream they do. Just because we don't have the same crap that the Chinese server has does not mean that our servers aren't controlled in much the same way, albeit more covertly.

Yes, Tencent without question has control over GGG. The extent and the kind, and how they impact the game, we can only speculate on, and my only interest here is to say that they are mere speculations. I can indulge in that myself, but I will say so. Some forumers want us to believe GGG is being puppeteered by their corporate overlords and I wish not provide them rich soil to nurture these thoughts.

If tomorrow we learn that it is indeed so I‘ll change my tune, but I go from what I know of

They have their almost full attention on POE 2 now. A side effect of this is a clear lack of focus on POE 1; maybe temporary, maybe permanent....time will tell.

Another side effect of this is that quite a chunk of the POE fanbase is not a fan of POE 2. So what you see now will only grow; POE 1 fans will constantly complain, until they quit for good. A good idea or not, I hope they make POE 2 a godly game otherwise, this will end badly for them. Not because they are bad at what they do, but because gamers are stubborn, and petty creatures.

Regarding the current league, it's not bad nor good, just average. Also, burnout is a thing many POE players tend to ignore.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

You can stand by your assumption all you like and call it "common sense" but it remains an opinion informed by your personal bias, a gut feeling. There may or may not be merit to it.

The only thing they would get involved with is profit, and thus monetization. We're talking MTX and supporter packs there, which have seen an evolution over time. More special effects and such rather than reskinning armour, skill mtx and such. But we already had supporter packs, stash tabs and loot boxes before Tencent.

Yes, and we also pretty much "know" (even though it can't be literally proven) that mtx sales are directly related to gameplay, meta, balance, and time. In the likely scenario that Tencent is involved in "profit", which even you admit is possible and probable, then they are ALSO going to be involved in all the things that have an effect on that profit.

It's NOT just mtx, special effects, reskinning, and such. There is a lot more that goes into WHY certain things will be popular enough to make as much money as possible.

And yes...we had all these things before tencent. The problem is the increased focus on them post-tencent. Previously they were secondary to the game development because the audience was small, the company was small, and the priorities were different. Now, the company is WAY bigger, the priority is MONEY, and the control is in a different house.

And lets be honest here....you are heavily calling me out on "unprovable" assumptions. Yet your responses to my posts are all exactly the same thing, albeit with far less probability and logic behind them. Yet you state them with such certainty as to completely ignore and discount everything I stated.

So who's being impudent here?

I can't "prove" that tencent has control over specific development aspects of this game. But logic, business, and common sense dictates they do exert SOME control, and my "opinion" is that they exert a larger amount of control than you or even I can even dream they do. Just because we don't have the same crap that the Chinese server has does not mean that our servers aren't controlled in much the same way, albeit more covertly.

Yes, Tencent without question has control over GGG. The extent and the kind, and how they impact the game, we can only speculate on, and my only interest here is to say that they are mere speculations. I can indulge in that myself, but I will say so. Some forumers want us to believe GGG is being puppeteered by their corporate overlords and I wish not provide them rich soil to nurture these thoughts.

If tomorrow we learn that it is indeed so I‘ll change my tune, but I go from what I know of

I mean to be fair, we don't have to even speculate that much. There is already an Eastern version of PoE, that had been under separate development standards and control, that do have design elements that directly impact gameplay. I know you have mentioned this previously (in this thread or another), so it does seem curious that you would seemingly omit this fact, or concede that "speculation" is way too dismissive when there is actual, tangible, evidence.

I think the only argument here that seems applicable, is the case that the GGG Dev's can point to Western gamers and culture not being as accepting to some of the more P2W elements that are quite popular out East. That said NO WAY Tencent is doing anything major before PoE2 comes out. However if the current set of GGG devs struggle a bit in subsequent leagues, or financial goals aren't met with PoE2's release, then it shouldn't surprise anyone that the actual owners of the company step in to monetize the game in a way they think is prudent.

Edit: I would also add that depending on the genre of game, Western gamers are softening their stance on P2W. Especially in the mobile area, and popularity of Gacha games lately (Holy MihHoyo revenue). I don't know what that means for the future, but it seems to me the tide is shifting considerably.

Darth, I have mentioned in other replies and threads that PoE China has a separate dev team that makes their own creative decisions for things that go on top of the regular PoE client. An omission requires intent, and you won't find me denying this anywhere

Path the First's monetization model is clearly working. They made enough money to attract Tencent in the first place and get a Chinese release of the game, with all the usual Chinese caveats i.e. the original company doesn't have any say in what the Chinese steward of the product does with it in China. Remember - Chinese law mandates that a non-Chinese company doing business in China is required to partner with a Chinese company that oversees that business and has ultimate control over the business within China's borders. Whatever Chinese partner company Grinding Gear is working with to produce the Chinese version of path, that company has ultimate control over how the Chinese version works. Grinding Gear gets little say, and would get little say whether they were owned by Tencent or not. Nobody gets a say in what happens to their stuff in China, with the exception of pulling the plug and removing their offerings from China entirely.

Even beyond that however, Grinding Gear makes enough money to've expanded their studio, afford swag new offices, get through the pandemic just fine, and also fund the development of an entirely new* game off the back of their normal monetization schema alone. They don't need to pull dumbass gacha crap, and they know Path is not the sort of wide-reaching casual game that can afford MiHoYo-style nakedly predatory monetization. Those games get away with it because they can fish in a sea of tens of millions of casuals for enough whales to keep themselves afloat; Path of Exile has no such luxury regardless of the number after the name. MiHoYo gacha players are not "gamers" in the traditional sense - the majority of them have no exposure to gaming beyond their mobile device and no interest in it, either. They'll never sit down in front of a PC and play Path.

People worried that Tencent will force GGG to make weird decisions and make their monetization more painful for the Devil Dollars are honestly being myopic. If anything, the way Tencent would compel Grinding Gear to monetize Path would be to get them to finish the mobile version, because the mobile market is a dozen times the size of the PC/console market combined even if any given user on mobile is deeply unlikely to ever get anywhere or really care about the game. The reality is that the Eastern markets are all about mobile, far more so than the Western markets - and the Western mobile gaming market is way bigger than most diehard PC Master Race sorts are willing to admit.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying don't worry about it. Grinding Gear already pushed the borders once with the whole Mystery Box fiasco, and has since taken steps to make their mystery boxes mildly less obnoxious. They've brushed up against this once before and have no reason to do so again when their current model clearly works just fine.

"

ArtCrusade wrote:

Darth, I have mentioned in other replies and threads that PoE China has a separate dev team that makes their own creative decisions for things that go on top of the regular PoE client. An omission requires intent, and you won't find me denying this anywhere

Ok right. I did mention that you acknowledged this previously. Again I'm curious then why it's then "speculation" if they already have a Dev Team in place in another region, who is operating currently in conjunction with the World Realm.

If anything this should be solid evidence that Tencent is more than willing to impact PoE on a development level, because, well... they already are. Or clarify why this doesn't apply, or what is needed to "change your tune" as you said? It seems you are making both the statement that Tencent does indeed influence gameplay (PoE China), but that they also wouldn't (PoE World).

Surely it cannot be both? It stands to reason that Tencent is staying out of the World Realm for now solely out of choice, not anything else. They can, and most certainly would, intervene, if they thought it was of financial benefit.

"

1453R wrote:

People worried that Tencent will force GGG to make weird decisions and make their monetization more painful for the Devil Dollars are honestly being myopic.

According to whom? This is insanely naïve imo.

Tencent doesn't have to force anything, they are the sole owner. They can literally do whatever they want. It's clear, for now, they see PoE World as operating fine. However that could change that at a moments notice, and they don't have to apologize or acknowledge anyone in that process.

It's not myopic, like at all. It's a fundamental understanding of how Tencent operates across many games in their business portfolio. This isn't even remotely difficult to comprehend, and is backed up by actual evidence. Anything to the contrary is simply a modified version of "Trust me Bro". The notion that Tencent would be magnanimous here just because it's GGG, makes no sense to me.