Hard crashing PC locks up

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pinimo#0250 wrote:

only reason for a CPU to hang would be faulty kernel drivers be it GPU or something else

Shader compilation process may interract with the kernel mode one way or another. Probably with the non-compliant way. Even if it is not related to your GPU directly, the bad code (or interraction in general) in those nv* (dll and sys) modules may lead to the freeze. The GPU driver is pretty complex piece of software.

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

So you were in the industry and think if you referring to "A LOT OF PEOPLE" which are NOT developers are good argument? Seriously. I asked to show me official limitations of hardware. You failed. TWICE. Teh dude from industry and doesn't know how the things are working. Okay.

Here is datasheet for Intel Intel® Core™ Ultra 200S Series 2
Processors. Volume 1 and Volume 2. And Update.

On this page you can find Series 1 dox. And other gens.

So where's your proof?

I Still am in the Industry, and like i said burden of proof isn't on me.

But to your post: Again you are citing it off based of a manufacturer report, that was written in a controlled environment. Where is your actual test?
That's what Im looking for.

You do know real world application doesn't necessarily apply to this right?
One thing i can praise you for is good "Googling" Skills.

Your assumptions based on this report are still just assumptions. Because your assuming it on the best possible scenario in a controlled environment. That's why they have that report in the first place.

Let me put it this way:

Software Clearly States Minimum Requirements to Play. During Playtesting EA.

Scenario A: [DEVICE/HARDWARE PROBLEM]
1. You buy a Phone > You Install Random Game on it
2. Your Phone says Cannot Install "Lack of Storage", "Lack of Ram".
3. You Brute Force the Installation > Your Phone Dies.

Scenario B: [CONSUMER/HARDWARE PROBLEM]
1. You buy a Phone > You Install a Random Game on it.
2. Your Phone Installs it.
3. Your Phone Overheats due to constant gaming and Eventually Dies.

Scenario C: [SOFTWARE PROBLEM]
1. You buy a Phone > You Install a Random Game on it.
2. Your Phone Installs it.
3. Your Phone Freezes and Eventually Dies.

The issue i have with you Sir is telling people that their setups, are what ultimately led to their pain and suffering with this game and that they deserve it. WHEN CLEARLY MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS are there.

It's not a matter of HARDWARE INSUFFICIENT.

When there are literally people that have posted their specs with higher capabilities still running into the same problems.

Literally the first guy you told off in this thread just mentioned

"

This is annoying, i was planning to play this for months during Christmas break

That guy literally posted nothing about his PC Specs, and you started running your mouth off.

Just to end this, this is a bug reporting forum, not a "I know my hardware forum"

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Delay#5504 wrote:

I Still am in the Industry, and like i said burden of proof isn't on me.

But to your post: Again you are citing it off based of a manufacturer report, that was written in a controlled environment. Where is your actual test?
That's what Im looking for.

You do know real world application doesn't necessarily apply to this right?
One thing i can praise you for is good "Googling" Skills.

Your assumptions based on this report are still just assumptions. Because your assuming it on the best possible scenario in a controlled environment. That's why they have that report in the first place.

Definitely, reading is not your strong side.

1. It is NOT report or test. It is datasheet with CPU CAPABILITIES and SPECIFICATIONS. Read the document. Step-by-step, letter-by-letter.

2. If actual CPU doesn't meet the declared CAPABILITIES, for ex. he can't do cmpxchg or syscall it is considered defective. You have full right to get your money back.

3. If your CPU exceeds the operating ranges you have right for money back. And vice versa, if you exceed the limits, your warranty will be revoked. For example check "3.2 Package Storage Specifications" or "Processor VCCCORE Active and Idle Mode DC Voltage and Current Specifications (S Processor Line)" sections.

I am still waiting for the information regarding to the limits of CPU % load with the time limits from the manufacturer. Where does he limit me not to load it up to 100% for the "prolonged"(c) period of time? And where is EXACT definition of "prolonged"?

You're not from industry if you don't make difference between specifications and user tests.

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Ghosstk#0790 wrote:

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Erionn#6306 wrote:

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Ghosstk#0790 wrote:

5k post in 2 forum threads and still no fix....

You think more people saying they have the issue is magically going to make them find a way to fix it faster?

No, but if u quietly sit in the corner then nobody will know about it...

It's literally on the known issues list. They are aware of the problem. Them giving any update is pointless unless the update is either they fixed it or it's something they can't fix.

No, an update is NEEDED. This issue is not new, it has happen for years, with the same failure mode. The only difference is that POE2 exploded in popularity, and so the forums posts. I played poe1 without crashes for years with a i5 from 2013, but after buying a new, better, processor and setup, the issue started. I thought it could be linked to my processor, but after seeing it being replicated by many, I understood this failure mode isn't an "special" case, and much more on the "common cause" type.

I think one simple "we are looking for a solution for the issue" is really reassuring, considering it's GGG.

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cursorTarget#1174 wrote:

"

Delay#5504 wrote:

I Still am in the Industry, and like i said burden of proof isn't on me.

But to your post: Again you are citing it off based of a manufacturer report, that was written in a controlled environment. Where is your actual test?
That's what Im looking for.

You do know real world application doesn't necessarily apply to this right?
One thing i can praise you for is good "Googling" Skills.

Your assumptions based on this report are still just assumptions. Because your assuming it on the best possible scenario in a controlled environment. That's why they have that report in the first place.

Definitely, reading is not your strong side.

1. It is NOT report or test. It is datasheet with CPU CAPABILITIES and SPECIFICATIONS. Read the document. Step-by-step, letter-by-letter.

2. If actual CPU doesn't meet the declared CAPABILITIES, for ex. he can't do cmpxchg or syscall it is considered defective. You have full right to get your money back.

3. If your CPU exceeds the operating ranges you have right for money back. And vice versa, if you exceed the limits, your warranty will be revoked. For example check "3.2 Package Storage Specifications" or "Processor VCCCORE Active and Idle Mode DC Voltage and Current Specifications (S Processor Line)" sections.

I am still waiting for the information regarding to the limits of CPU % load with the time limits from the manufacturer. Where does he limit me not to load it up to 100% for the "prolonged"(c) period of time? And where is EXACT definition of "prolonged"?

You're not from industry if you don't make difference between specifications and user tests.

"

1. It is NOT report or test. It is datasheet with CPU CAPABILITIES and SPECIFICATIONS. Read the document. Step-by-step, letter-by-letter.

I don't need to because hardware isn't the issue here, Your just assuming it is. Minimum Requirements are posted all over, people are hitting that minimum requirement and still having issues even if it was hardware take a look at the root cause.

"

2. If actual CPU doesn't meet the declared CAPABILITIES, for ex. he can't do cmpxchg or syscall it is considered defective. You have full right to get your money back.

Again we are not talking about the CPU. We are talking about the Software in which this CPU Resides in. What was the main cause of the Freezing and Crash. The Standalone CPU don't make me laugh.

"

3. If your CPU exceeds the operating ranges you have right for money back. And vice versa, if you exceed the limits, your warranty will be revoked. For example check "3.2 Package Storage Specifications" or "Processor VCCCORE Active and Idle Mode DC Voltage and Current Specifications (S Processor Line)" sections.

I actually agree with you on this. But what made the CPU exceed its limits then?

"

I am still waiting for the information regarding to the limits of CPU % load with the time limits from the manufacturer. Where does he limit me not to load it up to 100% for the "prolonged"(c) period of time? And where is EXACT definition of "prolonged"?

And that's exactly what im waiting for as well. By Definition: A prolonged period of time indicates: a length of time that continues for longer than expected or for a long time.

Now CPU Manufacturers don't really post this do they?
for the ones having issues:

Use Cases are:
1. They regularly shutdown their PC's > Boot up POE2 > Crash.
2. They never shut down their PC > Boot up POE2 > Crash.
3. They never shut down their PC > Never Log out of the Game > Crash.

Now out of those use-cases IF.. the key word was IF they did those things
then yes that's a consumer fault. But if it was item #1. Then is it a software issue or a hardware issue?

At the end of the day my guy i just wanna help these people that are experiencing issues.

I have crashed freezed 6t times today and somehow the problem is only getting worse, So no ETA on real solution?

I changed from DX12 to Vulkan and havent had a single crash for two hours. Also lowered all graphics to absolute minimum.

Coincidence?

Is there any update on this or fixes?

I am acctually losing weight by standing up and hard resetting my pc, 10 times a hour.

I think I got the problem (or a part of it).
I played the game since release and got no issues than I got my m2 frozen (not related?) and got to reinstall everything.

From that point on I got freezes, crashes and all the above.
I've tried everything and just 'experiencing debugging' I've noticed:
every time you change video settings all the shaders has to be remade, poe2 does this 'on the fly', on the presentation of the map (visually) and u can check this looking at the shader working and on the drive to (I have a separated ssd for steam so it is easy to check for me).
Disabling the multi-threat makes the game performance really bad (obv) but make the game 'work': this I supose because the is not a memory kill from windows and the new kernel (24h2).
That said: the issue is principally related on the shader generation and on the new win update partially, but coud even not be on my personal opinion so u have a process leak/predominance that when u change graphical settings, do a new windows installation (or anything that removes appdata shaders) or remove the so the regeneration of these is not well managed from a poe2 core perspective.
Proof of that is that if u disable the multi before a map u are not already been there (not always, because of win 24h2) it works else it crashes because u are tring to create the shaders for this map and it fucks up.
(I've noticed because with the multimonitor, having the task manager open I saw that even with all freezed, the cpu was perma 100% and the memory write/read was having peaks before shut down)
If instead you already have them, more likely u are getting no issues even with the multi on (tried and it is checkable).

The solution is that instead of letting people changing the settings and apply them 'on the fly', when u check some settings at the next reboot of the game poe2 must recreate the 80% of the shaders (ALL maps, mobs, bosses and skill visuals) before even entering the game (log-in). I don't care to wait 5 minutes because I changed settings the first time I do it, or even 10 or 15 or more if anything else it's fine the next dozens of hours of game.

Player side, that surely helps:
- if you use nvidia is to allocate more memory for the shaders
- setting the affinity to 'save' 1-2 cores helps prevent the shut-down
- keep replaying maps 'slowly' u should notice even in performance always more a better feeling and gradually less crashes.

Please PoE2 team, work on this and contact Windows to work together if needed: it is a blocking issue, don't wait the full release for something like that.
I understand all the 'arounds' that could be in a studio (I'm a dev to, not of games but still so I could understand/imagine a few 'dynamics'). Even if this is a problem of 10% of the 'users', you could not ignore it.