Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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ConradN7#7540 wrote:

Ngl I feel like the ones whining about lack of xp loss making the game easier are the ones who think this non-achievement would matter even less. This is redactive type of game design, and no one gives a flying fuck if you achieved max level or not, neither here in poe2 or in poe1. I am baffled how poe1 elitists still trying to claim max level is some sort of achievement. Live news everyone, it isn't.

This sort of bad game design doesn't belong in a good game. XP loss, since the days of Everquest, has been considered dogshit and for a good reason removed with a game like World of Warcraft. It's lazy attempt at difficulty only leading to tedious trash that no one enjoys and leads to players leaving the league because they are actually losing progress

It's odd that they're defending the XP Loss so fervently. Especially odd because I honestly can't think of another game that has XP loss in it, aside from diablo 2 and PoE. Most games got rid of the mechanic years ago.

The original mechanic came at a time in Diablo 2, when there was a severe lack of content, and adding in a mechanic like this, padded peoples game time. The same thing happened in WoW with quest designs, travelling, sitting in raids for 5 hours. It's padding. It's not there to make the game more difficult. It's to give people a goal of max level, and then making it difficult to do so people spend more time on it.

PoE doesn't need it though. The amount of content in the game surpasses Diablo 2 10x over. There are other ways to implement systems that promote players to learn and adapt.

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ConradN7#7540 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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ConradN7#7540 wrote:

Ngl I feel like the ones whining about lack of xp loss making the game easier are the ones who think this non-achievement would matter even less. This is redactive type of game design, and no one gives a flying fuck if you achieved max level or not, neither here in poe2 or in poe1. I am baffled how poe1 elitists still trying to claim max level is some sort of achievement. Live news everyone, it isn't.

This sort of bad game design doesn't belong in a good game. XP loss, since the days of Everquest, has been considered dogshit and for a good reason removed with a game like World of Warcraft. It's lazy attempt at difficulty only leading to tedious trash that no one enjoys and leads to players leaving the league because they are actually losing progress

It's odd that they're defending the XP Loss so fervently. Especially odd because I honestly can't think of another game that has XP loss in it, aside from diablo 2 and PoE. Most games got rid of the mechanic years ago.

The original mechanic came at a time in Diablo 2, when there was a severe lack of content, and adding in a mechanic like this, padded peoples game time. The same thing happened in WoW with quest designs, travelling, sitting in raids for 5 hours. It's padding. It's not there to make the game more difficult. It's to give people a goal of max level, and then making it difficult to do so people spend more time on it.

PoE doesn't need it though. The amount of content in the game surpasses Diablo 2 10x over. There are other ways to implement systems that promote players to learn and adapt.

Want to know why? Tryhards. They think it gives some sort of achievement to beat those tedious designs.
I have one suggestion to them. Play FromSoft games, THAT is how you make games difficult, not just some half assed tedious barbed wires on the wall. People don't play ARPGs for tedious mechanics, nor do they play souls games for xp loss or loss of map progress

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

One of the things I've got from playing dozens of other games over the years. Is a perspective that many don't, who largely enjoy only one game.

Perspectives on the things that people do enjoy, and don't enjoy is one of them. As well as the reasoning some people really value mechanics like this, and it's almost always tied into ego.

Being good at the game, or at least, better than others. Is a superiority ploy for many. It doesn't matter that it frustrates other players and has them quitting if that same person can just say "Yeah, well maybe the game just isn't for you!" or "Have you tried a different build? I don't get one shot!".

That's what you read when you read most of the comments about it too. One person will say this is a frustrating mechanic and makes the game unfun for me, and someone will immediately respond with an emotional response, or an insult, or dismissiveness.

In the real world. Most games don't have the mechanic because it actively frustrates players. There's nothing wrong with friction in a game that's intended to get you to slow down and think about your builds or items. XP loss on death however, is just simply a bad way of doing it.

Will the players here, defending it, recognize that? No, probably not. Because it doesn't matter what the mechanic is. They'll usually defend it, because it lets them be above other people. This really comes down to them confronting their ego's, and asking themselves what is actually fun for them, and others. Listening to others opinions, rather than trying to one up them.

It's like we're in kindergarten in this thread.

I especially like the amount of people that have spent thousands of hours in the game, lacking the awareness that most players don't play the game like they do, and don't value the same things they do. 10% vs the other 90% of players.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Negative feedback could be :

"I think the ratio of time spent in maps for this amount of XP in opposition to the risks taken while fighting occasional Uber bosses is slighlty off ; resulting in a much harder leveling for the last 5-10 levels while mainly playing a balanced hybrid defence/offence build in magic to rare maps, with 2-4 affixes, between t12 and t16."


But instead we have :

"Remove XP penalty, it's useless and I hate it. GGG makes all of us lose our time. I can't progress with my glasscanon, I get one shoted by white mobs from offscreen in T18 fully juiced WTF, losing my citadel, map, and all my XP earned in a full week on top of it. It's a trash game, dead in one week time for sure. I'll sue you for wasting my precious time. Freaking no-lives hc egomaniacs elitists ruined again a great casual game with 50yo dumb mecanics. Please nerffff".


Go figure.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

think about it. do you rly want to balance a "grinding" game around casuals with the peak reachable easy for everyone? there is no reason to play if youre done after 4 days. people want goals to achieve. if everybody reaches a goal, achieving it is worthless. and there has to be something for the people that want to grind something. lvls are not mandatory for anything, so its fine.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

no apologie needed, i understand your take. you should not focus on getting some levels at the end or not.
like i said, the higher you go, the harder it gets.
if you dont want to invest the same amount as somebody else, you should get less in return. no matter if its levels or anything else. i think its fair.
but they should give us 6 portals back so waystones and content doesnt brick instantly.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Negative feedback could be :

"I think the ratio of time spent in maps for this amount of XP in opposition to the risks taken while fighting occasional Uber bosses is slighlty off ; resulting in a much harder leveling for the last 5-10 levels while mainly playing a balanced hybrid defence/offence build in magic to rare maps, with 2-4 affixes, between t12 and t16."


But instead we have :

"Remove XP penalty, it's useless and I hate it. GGG makes all of us lose our time. I can't progress with my glasscanon, I get one shoted by white mobs from offscreen in T18 fully juiced WTF, losing my citadel, map, and all my XP earned in a full week on top of it. It's a trash game, dead in one week time for sure. I'll sue you for wasting my precious time. Freaking no-lives hc egomaniacs elitists ruined again a great casual game with 50yo dumb mecanics. Please nerffff".


Go figure.

The feelings of others matter.

You don't recognize them as valid, which is what the issue is. Wake up. A good game company translates the feelings into changes. It's not up to a player to make suggestions or give feedback in the way you want it to be given. And even when it has, you're still arguing with people. There's tons of your posts in here. It's crazy. Take a break man.


Why does PoE 2 need to be based around grinding? We have PoE 1 that's grind central. Do we really need.. two games to grind? Think about it, because you like grinding, right? Well, grinding two games is really difficult and even more time consuming. Which one will you pick?

It's funny that you mention grinding too, because when games are good. People will play them for decades. Completely as casuals. Just look at DotA, or League. I have 6000 hours in DotA on steam, and I was playing DotA allstars back when it was first coming out in WC3. I never cared to be good at the game, and I still enjoyed it either way.

PoE 2 has no need to be forced into a grinding game category to do well, and defending this stance is basically asking for PoE 1 to be neglected.

If the effective max level for people is 90. Then they can just get rid of the extra 10 levels.

People should be able to get to these levels within reasonable time-frames if they exist. Not everyone can sit and play PoE for 6, 7, 8+ hours a day. If I have 2 hours to play, I don't want to play for 1.9 hours, and then get distracted by my girlfriend coming into the room to remind me we have to go do something, and then I die to a random enemy that kills me while I'm looking away from the computer, losing 2 hours of my time.

This never has been a good mechanic, and it never will be. There's at least another dozen ways to solve the issue of gating players and forcing them to consider their builds/gear. And they're much more effective. And largely, if you start dying in PoE, you'll just keep dying. You might be able to bruteforce your way through a boss, but the next maps get harder and harder.


Games that force grinding in them, play heavily off peoples ego's, and addictive tendencies. And GGG has even thrown in some gambling with the orbs. And if you take a look at it even further. The fact that you're forced to stay online to trade further reinforces all of these things.

This game is unhealthy. And people are trying to tell you it's unhealthy, and your ego is getting in the way of this realization. It's unhealthy because of the time required, it's unhealthy because of the frustrations built into the gameplay, and it's unhealthy because of the mindset it breeds in people. Superiority complexes, and looking down on 'casuals', as if they don't make up like 90% of gamers worldwide. And it's unhealthy because of the way GGG has implemented the ways to keep you engaged in the game. Ways that aren't fun, and are instead rather frustrating. Which is ultimately what games are about, Fun.

Addicts get into a cycle that's very similar to abusive relationships with video games like this. Where it's frustration and more frustration. But you'll keep playing because maybe, just maybe, you'll get that unique you've been wanting and it'll all be worth it. Except, the games never going to change. It's just going to keep love bombing you. And you'll keep defending it.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

This sort of bad game design doesn't belong in a good game. XP loss, since the days of Everquest, has been considered dogshit and for a good reason removed with a game like World of Warcraft. It's lazy attempt at difficulty only leading to tedious trash that no one enjoys and leads to players leaving the league because they are actually losing progress