Popular Opinion: In 3.28 League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

But this "solo-only" change is not happening because A: the majority of players would hate it and B: SSF exists so making anything solo-only in any other mode of this game is redundant and pointless.

If, in your view, this is not going to happen, there is still no reason to shut down valid feedback without offering any real counterarguments, or to repeatedly drag SSF into a discussion where it has no relevance. That behavior is disruptive and violates the Code of Conduct, and at this point moderation should step in to address the continued, deliberate derailing of the topic.

We are also still waiting for clear and valid reasons for why you think this is a bad idea. So far, all that has been presented are vague claims, random made up numbers, and repeated assertions that it will not happen. None of this constitutes a real argument. As it stands, it reads less like constructive criticism and more like an attempt to hide personal discomfort with the idea of actually engaging with the game.

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

Anyway, I'm gonna enjoy paying people 100+ chaos and buying my voidstone carries in Phrecia. And in 3.28. The objectively correct solution is to make the content fun to do so people want to do it, if the other 2 voidstones were as fast to get as exarch and eater then not nearly as many people would buy carries.

The content itself is genuinely fun and, on top of that, fairly quick to complete. It only stops being enjoyable when someone hits a wall in the game’s natural progression because they are unable to beat the encounters. In that case, Loonie offered perfectly valid feedback.

If a player is not ready for the fight and keeps getting farmed by Pixel, that is the clearest possible indicator that they are simply not built for the content yet. Under those circumstances, there is no justification for granting access to the rewards that come from a clear. That principle should apply consistently, not just to Voidstones and favourite slots, but to challenges as well.

If someone wants the rewards, they need to put in the work, grind, and actually play the content. That is, ultimately, what the game is about, even if that idea seems to clash with the belief that progression should be handed out by default, or that engaging with the game’s mechanics is somehow optional rather than fundamental.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

People buy voidstone carries because its too grindy to get the maven and uber elder ones yourself

No, people buy carries because they can't beat the content and for literally zero other reasons, ever.

Any other excuses are, at best, pure cope and denial. We are literally talking about people paying to have LESS game to play... why would anyone do that unless it was content that they felt they had zero chance of beating on their own?

Nah, people do it cus they just wanna blast. This is SC Trade, not HC SSF. Most of them could farm these bosses themselves, but it is simply faster to buy a carry. That's the only reason lol

Like one league a guy was selling maven voidstones, and he was doing it on Uber Maven because of how easy the boss was for him so I got an uber boss kill for a challenge at the same time as my voidstone for only 30c when usually uber boss carries are 1 div minimum lmfao

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nah, people do it cus they just wanna blast. This is SC Trade, not HC SSF. Most of them could farm these bosses themselves, but it is simply faster to buy a carry. That's the only reason lol

If I'm playing Phrecia this weekend and it's time to fight the Maven, and I can't quite beat the fight because my gear is too bad, why would I spend 100c buying a single-time carry instead of spending that currency upgrading my gear and improving my character?

It makes absolutely zero sense to pay someone else to do something you could do yourself, especially if it's something you're going to do more than once.

(especially considering basic Maven is such a low progression bar the fight really is just easy)

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

If I'm playing Phrecia this weekend and it's time to fight the Maven, and I can't quite beat the fight because my gear is too bad, why would I spend 100c buying a single-time carry instead of spending that currency upgrading my gear and improving my character?

It makes absolutely zero sense to pay someone else to do something you could do yourself, especially if it's something you're going to do more than once.

Because I always sell all my Maven's Writs. I never farm maven because its almost always not worth it when the writ sells for so much. Buying a carry allows me to sell all maven invitations I get in the future. Getting all voidstones allows me to just farm t16s and buy my gear anyways after I get currency from that.

I have a better chance of getting a good awakened gem just spamming destructive play maps than actually doing Maven lol, boss farming just generally sucks in this game if you aren't doing hundreds of them at a time. And I'm not doing that when there's way easier,faster ways to farm currency.

Buying voidstone carries makes perfect sense if you wanna get done with atlas progression as fast as possible, and who wants to do maps with only 2 voidstones?


Also some people just hate the maven fight and the memory game, and rightfully so. It has MMO raid boss mechanics which don't belong in an ARPG.


And people will especially buy voidstone carries more in Phrecia when your voidstones are the ONLY source of "maps have X% chance to drop as tier higher" in the game. Map sustain will suck in early progression, and you need all the voidstone bosses for your idol slots.

Buying voidstones i would not have such a problem with as that is pretty important part of being able to drop better loot - like t17 maps and make further progress. And some builds are just bad for that kind of bossing or people are just bad in learning those mechanics, but that should not keep them forever from getting 4 voidstones.

But that has nothing to do with challenges. You can buy voidstone for beating maven, but if beating maven would be one challenges you should not get that achievement until you actually do beat her alone. Completing challenges has no effect on how you enjoying game and it is in no sense mandatory. I can't actually think of any other case than poe where completing challenge issued to you could be done by someone else. Hard to imagine paying someone to get some ice water on them for 5 bucks because you want to complete ice bucket challenge but don't wanna get wet and cold yourself.

"

BadAssTom#2893 wrote:

Buying voidstones i would not have such a problem with as that is pretty important part of being able to drop better loot - like t17 maps and make further progress. And some builds are just bad for that kind of bossing or people are just bad in learning those mechanics, but that should not keep them forever from getting 4 voidstones.

But that has nothing to do with challenges. You can buy voidstone for beating maven, but if beating maven would be one challenges you should not get that achievement until you actually do beat her alone. Completing challenges has no effect on how you enjoying game and it is in no sense mandatory. I can't actually think of any other case than poe where completing challenge issued to you could be done by someone else. Hard to imagine paying someone to get some ice water on them for 5 bucks because you want to complete ice bucket challenge but don't wanna get wet and cold yourself.

Carries are just part of online RPGs though, its player-emergent behavior. I pay someone 100c for a challenge, they get profit and I get my completion done. If GGG didn't want carries to be part of Trade they would have done something years ago.

Wanna know an example of something that they actually changed and made solo-only? Scrying maps. When that first came out, you were actually able to invite players to your map if you found Nameless Seer, and they could click him and scry a map on their atlas. People were selling Seer on TFT and trade chat nonstop for multiple divines.(if he appeared on a map with Apothecary as a natural card drop it cost like 8 divs to buy a Seer from another player lmao)

And then a few days later GGG released a patch that changed it so you had to find Nameless Seer yourself to scry your map, and its also regularly part of the divination card-themed challenge now too.(though you only need to complete 3/4 on that one to get it so you can just skip finding Seer since he's fully RNG)

People were still posting their messages of selling Nameless Seer even after the patch, cus they didn't realize it had been changed lol

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

If GGG didn't want carries to be part of Trade they would have done something years ago.

The philosophy in this singular exerpt from your post is why bad things don't get changed IRL too. It's regressive.

GGG changes things that have been "set in stone" almost every league, so I don't know how you come to think this is even remotely true.

You know what else was "set in stone" since the inception of the game? https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

Need I continue? A tiny bit of scrutiny reveals just how false your claim is yet again.

"

ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

If GGG didn't want carries to be part of Trade they would have done something years ago.

The philosophy in this singular exerpt from your post is why bad things don't get changed IRL too. It's regressive.

GGG changes things that have been "set in stone" almost every league, so I don't know how you come to think this is even remotely true.

You know what else was "set in stone" since the inception of the game? https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

Need I continue? A tiny bit of scrutiny reveals just how false your claim is yet again.

What does Trade QOL have to do with anything? They added Faustus and Asynch because they knew modern ARPG players wouldn't accept a game in the current year that doesn't have instant trading. That is literally what they said, that's why Faustus was put into the game. And its the best thing that's happened to this game ever.

I am not sure how to hold a conversation or even argue with someone who cannot apply basic logic or the ability to transfer knowledge from one concept to another.

I'll put this into very simple words:

1) GGG has conceptualized Trading as a feature that is important to the health of the player economy, but one that needs friction.

2) This friction was created by adding constraints to how items can be traded. Both players must be online at the same time, be in the same instance, and interact via the Trade Window.

3) This friction-based Trading system was so important to GGG that they wrote an entire Manifesto explaining the philosophy behind it.

4) They have stood firm on those principles for almost a decade.

Let me remind you of your own words:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

If GGG didn't want carries to be part of Trade they would have done something years ago.

There are just too many examples of GGG acting the opposite of what you are insinuating here. Just take Deterministic Crafting Systems. The original system was pure RNG with little to no determinism playing a roll. Later came Essence, Betrayal, Harvest, Synthesis etc. which today are inseperable from the economy and itemization. But for many years, those were unthinkable power fantasies.

And more so, they have time and time again iterated on how league mechanics function as permanent systems in the PoE mapping ecosystem, changing their approach to how rewards are structured manifold such as when they went back on having too much generic loot from mechanics like Legion, or the amount of Stacked Decks dropping from mechanics.

For the longest time we had Piano Flasking until we got Flask Enchantments.

The list goes on.

GGG has proven time and time again that they are open to changing systems you'd think are fundamental to how PoE works. That is the nature of every Live Service Game.

I think you simply don't understand how GGG operates and makes decisions.