T17s are still an overtuned mess that are also annoying to roll

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Scarletsword wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

30 divines is a lot of currency for the majority of the playerbase, that's like almost a mirror in 10 hours.

Avg. mirror prices this league so far was ~670d and is currently sitting at 970d. They're certainly not 300d.

https://poe.ninja/economy/settlers/currency/mirror-of-kalandra

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Toforto wrote:

I just alch and corrupt t16 mesas and throw in some ambush scarabs with red influence all day..

Right, you're comparing low-end T16s to the high-end minmaxed T17s.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - the only mistake with T17s the naming. They should've had an RP name like "astral prison maps" and not a single one of these threads would exist.

I dunno how much a mirror costs now, I just said that because I assume a mirror costs around 300-400 divines in week 1 of a league. And no, I would still complain no matter what these maps were called because of how they aren't optional content like uber bosses. You don't see me complaining about uber bosses, because they just have static drops and that's it. They don't destroy the economy as much as these maps, and if I want an item like Nimis I can just buy it from another player for the overpriced scam of 200 divines. I never actually do those bosses myself, except sometimes at the end of a league I put in a few fragments for fun to see if I get a crazy drop, most of the time I pay someone 2 divines for a boss carry and call it a day.

Tier 17s are a completely different problem though, the balance of the map mods, the design of most of the "custom" monsters in them which are just reskins, including the bosses, being made to waste people's time and annoy them. The ludicrous amount of gold they drop. And ofc all the scarabs and currency and t0 uniques they rain down on only a small number of players while everyone else is left in the dust.

If you’re making 10div an hour a day or a week you are doing better than me and I had no issues at all with t17s.
With all those divs you’re making build a dedicated t17 build and make 30div per hour (which btw isn’t even a thing, I tried it myself and even with that Strat it’s rng and you have to sell stuff to make that kind of average, it’s not 30 raw div).
You’ve literally moaned for 24 pages about you feeling left out of something your answers say you could resolve with ease.

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Timbo Zero wrote:

If you’re making 10div an hour a day or a week you are doing better than me and I had no issues at all with t17s.
With all those divs you’re making build a dedicated t17 build and make 30div per hour (which btw isn’t even a thing, I tried it myself and even with that Strat it’s rng and you have to sell stuff to make that kind of average, it’s not 30 raw div).
You’ve literally moaned for 24 pages about you feeling left out of something your answers say you could resolve with ease.

I shouldn't have to make a completely seperate character just to do these maps comfortably, and most t17 "viable" builds are super expensive for me.
There's a reason I only ever have 1 build per league, the campaign is painfully boring. I did a 2nd char and even with all the twink gear and speedrunning it in 4 hours 28 mins with hollow palm volcanic fissure of snaking, it still sucked to do. And that build lagged too much(to the point where textures were flickering and disappearing in maps) so I deleted the char afterwards lol

A friend put together a CI Splitting Steel trickster that cost like 500+ divines(we literally had to pool all of our currency from shipments together to even buy the mageblood and nimis+100 div forbidden flame/flesh) and at 8300 ES its hp still dances like crazy in t17s with harbingers lol(he tried some simulacrums, sometimes he would randomly die to too many enemies attacking him), even that with a bunch of max res and block chance and max suppression with 70% effect flasks still ain't enough for these maps, and if that isn't enough then I have no hope.

I don't want build help, what I want is for these maps to be balanced properly, and until then I'll keep asking for it and just not touch this content anymore.

And yeah, I know divines per hour is just a scam and clickbait fuel for youtube videos. That's why I never bother with any of those "strats", I just do what I always do and always somehow get the lucky drops to get all the currency I need to buy all my gear. It's worked out every league, this league my big lucky drop was a hinekora's lock that I sold for 12 divs on like day 2 of the league.

The biggest issue is actually that the game is catering to trade league.
The game should be balanced for SSF, and that is the issue.

You want to have a special league where the mods are crazy and you just buy all your gear . Bingo trade league. That is what we have now.

But the game should be balanced for people who find their own gear and craft their own gear. SSF should be the measuring stick.

Ok trade league is easy mode. Its a known thing , its the game made easy by buying your way to fame. Which it is now.

But to then say ohh we need to balance easy mode and make it HARD.
That is the problem.

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Jitter912 wrote:

The biggest issue is actually that the game is catering to trade league.
The game should be balanced for SSF, and that is the issue.

You want to have a special league where the mods are crazy and you just buy all your gear . Bingo trade league. That is what we have now.

But the game should be balanced for people who find their own gear and craft their own gear. SSF should be the measuring stick.

Ok trade league is easy mode. Its a known thing , its the game made easy by buying your way to fame. Which it is now.

But to then say ohh we need to balance easy mode and make it HARD.
That is the problem.

Yep pretty much. Would be nice if the thousands of rares that dropped on the ground were at least a bit useful, but that just isn't what the game is atm.

The biggest issue with t17's is they are in fact build breaking and a huge currency sink to spam roll chaos. They are also still quite harder then most of the ubers are. They should be much harder then 16's but harder because the mobs are smarter/better/more mods not because you roll stuff that negatively impacts your character. Specifically stuff like No leech, or no regen this is akin to the old reflect crap that there was NO way to deal with it.

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Toforto wrote:

A friend put together a CI Splitting Steel trickster that cost like 500+ divines(we literally had to pool all of our currency from shipments together to even buy the mageblood and nimis+100 div forbidden flame/flesh) and at 8300 ES its hp still dances like crazy in t17s with harbingers lol(he tried some simulacrums, sometimes he would randomly die to too many enemies attacking him)

Let's be straight up honest here, with 8300 ES it's not really much a surprise that he gets one shot by larger hits as his ehp is pretty damn low.
He's likely using a Ephemeral Edge so his damage is also mediocre because of the low ES as result.
Playing stacking builds on budget always results in a semi okay but not smooth experience. I mean players playing this kind of build run around with this amount of ES day 2 of a fresh league and go up to 20k past the first week.
Like even 14k ES would be pretty mediocre past 1 week into a fresh league and result just into a lot of build issues with both damage and survivability.

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Pashid wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

A friend put together a CI Splitting Steel trickster that cost like 500+ divines(we literally had to pool all of our currency from shipments together to even buy the mageblood and nimis+100 div forbidden flame/flesh) and at 8300 ES its hp still dances like crazy in t17s with harbingers lol(he tried some simulacrums, sometimes he would randomly die to too many enemies attacking him)

Let's be straight up honest here, with 8300 ES it's not really much a surprise that he gets one shot by larger hits as his ehp is pretty damn low.
He's likely using a Ephemeral Edge so his damage is also mediocre because of the low ES as result.
Playing stacking builds on budget always results in a semi okay but not smooth experience. I mean players playing this kind of build run around with this amount of ES day 2 of a fresh league and go up to 20k past the first week.
Like even 14k ES would be pretty mediocre past 1 week into a fresh league and result just into a lot of build issues with both damage and survivability.

?
How is 8300 es low, that's an insane amount of hp. And I wouldn't even know how to get more hp on a character like that, probably have to buy mirror-tier gear or something. Yes its ephemeral edge with resolute technique corrupt, thats the bis weapon for the build. Also his dps tooltip reached 1 billion with all buffs and Focus active so no the build has more than enough dps to delete everything. He already had t1 es rolls on all gear, the light of meaning with % es is 100 divines which is way too expensive just for an hp boost. This is exactly the problem with t17s, the bar is way too high. Unreal expectations of builds to be able to do them. I can't believe 8300 es is considered low somehow lol

These maps need some nerfs and that's that.

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edgewood wrote:

The biggest issue with t17's is they are in fact build breaking and a huge currency sink to spam roll chaos. They are also still quite harder then most of the ubers are. They should be much harder then 16's but harder because the mobs are smarter/better/more mods not because you roll stuff that negatively impacts your character. Specifically stuff like No leech, or no regen this is akin to the old reflect crap that there was NO way to deal with it.

Yep exactly, too many "haha you don't get to play your build" mods and the design of the enemies in those maps is horrible. Letting us just use all currency on t17s would be a good start.

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Toforto wrote:

I shouldn't have to make a completely seperate character just to do these maps comfortably

Yes, you absolutely should. T17 isn't a natural jump in maps like T15 > T16 is. T17s are optional end-endgame content. Even previously the game encouraged you to have separate builds for separate purposes, unless you're insanely good at the game or have a really high investment all-rounder build.

The average player doesn't usually get to take their mapping builds into Uber bosses. People have specialized builds for Labyrinth, Sanctum and previously TotA for that exact reason.

You being average and poor, as in not having currency, is not a problem inherently attributed to T17s being bad design. You are just not ready for that content yet. You don't have to, they are optional, but somehow your fomo doesn't seem to be getting that for months on end now.

Personally I hope GGG doubles down on the concept of T17s. Just because.

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Toforto wrote:

How is 8300 es low, that's an insane amount of hp.

No, it's not an "insane" amount of hp, lol. Especially not on Trickster. Are you trolling? We've had these ball parks years ago on budget builds. People are literally hitting 15k+ on ssf gear in week 1 now.

And that's your issue with T17s. You heavily overestimate your builds and capabilities and then think the game is the problem when you get rolled.