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People complain about xp loss 24/7 because it is a shit mechanic no one enjoys. If no one enjoys it, remove it. It is a detriment to the game, only the top 0.1% who pretend that anyone cares for their "leveling speed balance" defend it. No real arpg fan enjoys it.
All xp loss does it punish players for doing what a rpg wants, experiment and grow a character. XP Loss is a huge reason people follow guides because anything else could lead to a build that has troubles in end game and fixing it requires tons of xp loss, how enjoyable that must be. To some people a single death could elimiate the progress of an entire day worth of their playtime, the game will bleed players like crazy once the casual playerbase reaches endgame.
thats really not true at all. xp loss is no punish for growing, its the opposit. it tells people that their build isnt good enough and makes reaching high levels mean something other then dying constantly through the maps. and stop talking about casuals. the moment xp loss starts hurting is 93+. if somebody reaches lvl 93 in 2,5 weeks, its far from being a casual. on top of that, not a single content is gates behind reaching lvl 95 or 100. the game isnt better with lvl 100 and its not worse with lvl 90. there is nothing behind it.
But you know, isn't dying enough of a sign that your build is not good enough You will literally not progress even if you level up in that case, won't you?
We are talking about casuals because, casuals will eventually reach that level if they like the game (To be fair, they will notice at level 81 already won't they? That's not high bar to reach if the game is fun.)
They will eventually encounter this aswell. However, they won't go to forums to discuss this, they will just leave.
And the fact content is not gated for reaching level 95 or 100 is another reason why the system is not needed. If you build is not good enough, you will die. You will keep your XP and keep dying anyway. XP does not have such effect, so why take it from the player?
Last edited by DarkNoob216#0558 on Dec 25, 2024, 8:10:33 PM
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Posted byDarkNoob216#0558on Dec 25, 2024, 8:09:11 PM
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insulting me and telling me to stop arguing with my emotions in one line. 10/10
the mechanic is suppose to be disliked- that its purpose. and fact you don't like it it means its working, problem is that it suppose to teach you to avoid death. and fro some reason its failing at that
A mechanic existing to make players hate it is the most horrible idea I've ever heard. No, that's just gonna make the players hate the game lol
Sorry but everyone hates the death penalty, and the game would instantly be objectively better and more fun if there was just a checkmark in the settings to turn it off. And 99.9% of people would turn it off, by the way.
right, this is why rougelikes (games with most extreme death penalties) are popular.... and poe2 is far from that lol. you need something like puzzles or stardewvalley(i assume you don't have negative outcomes there)
Some of the more popular real roguelikes like tome4 have modes where you have extra lives or basically no permadeath on your character. Alternatively there are more popular mods to the basegame. Weird that you forget to mention that, lack any kind of argument in favor of xp penalties, or death penalties.
PoE2 has place for real roguelike modes for level 100 characters as a real end game, make it optional. Not everyone likes it.
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:09:28 PM
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do you need lvl100 to complete a build you found on poeninja? i'm baffled man. WHY DO YOU NEED LVL 100?
Nobody is saying they need lvl100.
People here are just saying exp penalty is an unfun mechanic. It's that simple. It's not about extra skill points or whatever.
dying suppose to be 'un-fun' and XP penalty is only preventing you from those extra points. nothing more nothing less
working as intended then
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Posted byAintCare#6513on Dec 25, 2024, 8:10:12 PM
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People complain about xp loss 24/7 because it is a shit mechanic no one enjoys. If no one enjoys it, remove it. It is a detriment to the game, only the top 0.1% who pretend that anyone cares for their "leveling speed balance" defend it. No real arpg fan enjoys it.
All xp loss does it punish players for doing what a rpg wants, experiment and grow a character. XP Loss is a huge reason people follow guides because anything else could lead to a build that has troubles in end game and fixing it requires tons of xp loss, how enjoyable that must be. To some people a single death could elimiate the progress of an entire day worth of their playtime, the game will bleed players like crazy once the casual playerbase reaches endgame.
thats really not true at all. xp loss is no punish for growing, its the opposit. it tells people that their build isnt good enough and makes reaching high levels mean something other then dying constantly through the maps. and stop talking about casuals. the moment xp loss starts hurting is 93+. if somebody reaches lvl 93 in 2,5 weeks, its far from being a casual. on top of that, not a single content is gates behind reaching lvl 95 or 100. the game isnt better with lvl 100 and its not worse with lvl 90. there is nothing behind it.
A casual player would not know, max is known to be 100 so you are supposed to be able to reach 100 and 100 to go into the very end game. Losing xp during these leveling stages invokes negative feelings and ultimately leads people to quit. If the game is made for ex lvl 85 then cap the xp at 85.
People who need time to reach end game will not see that their build is not good enough, they will get swarmed by turbo speed mobs and die instantly and think the game is unfair given the campaign sets a different expectation. Design failure, bad game.
Any somewhat functional build should be able to reach max level, that only makes sense in a rpg where you grind, penalizing players who do not follow guides due to lack of time etc will only shrink the playerbase for no benefit. Build strength should matter in the end game challenges like trials made for level 100, level 101+ maps for lv100 players or other uber content.
Frontloading these responsibilities on players who would not play long after 100 (they consider max level beating the char, then make a new one with new build for example) is doing nothing but kill retention and returning to new leagues.
no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
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Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Dec 25, 2024, 8:10:35 PM
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Some of the more popular real roguelikes like tome4 have modes where you have extra lives or basically no permadeath on your character. Alternatively there are more popular mods to the basegame. Weird that you forget to mention that, lack any kind of argument in favor of xp penalties, or death penalties.
PoE2 has place for real roguelike modes for level 100 characters as a real end game, make it optional. Not everyone likes it.
weird that you forget to mention that mods are not official game features.
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Posted byAintCare#6513on Dec 25, 2024, 8:11:25 PM
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do you need lvl100 to complete a build you found on poeninja? i'm baffled man. WHY DO YOU NEED LVL 100?
Nobody is saying they need lvl100.
People here are just saying exp penalty is an unfun mechanic. It's that simple. It's not about extra skill points or whatever.
if it wasnt about skill points nobody would care and you know it. its all about levels while all above lvl 92 doesnt matter anyway. its just crying for nothing. the game isnt better if you are 97 compared to 93. it changes nothing.
EXACTLY! So why does the system even exist lol.
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Posted byDarkNoob216#0558on Dec 25, 2024, 8:12:43 PM
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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
There's that "reaching 100 is/should be an achievement" argument. No, it isn't. The average casual does not care about ladders or how long someone grinded to get to 100. If your build is bad dying is already bad enough, the game does not need extra penalties. Dying already feels bad enough, how is this so hard to understand? Do you enjoy games that just punish you for no reason? Because most people don't. Which is why threads like this exist and keep popping up for years.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Dec 25, 2024, 8:12:46 PM
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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
Again you people being disingenuous.
It takes a ridiculous amount of time to reach lvl 100 even without the exp-loss.
Good builds will only speed this up by a sliver, but still it will take time.
The time investment is enough to turn most people off even way before max level.
That time investment is the effort. Not the "Fuck you, you got to farm 20 more hours cause you died".
And again, no matter what build you have. These games got so many variables that you will get blown up.
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Posted bymrfox123#7595on Dec 25, 2024, 8:14:27 PM
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bro, you literally mocked me by saying IQ 5000. back peddle all you want
Yes, and?
You're the one telling people to go play another game because you don't like the criticisms they're making on the game.
That's definitely some 500,000 IQ play. The fact that instead of realizing you're arguing emotionally. You just continue.
I even pointed it out for you. Take a step back. Relax. Think things through.
Most people don't like the mechanic.
You do.
Let's make it optional. Then you can go and die to you hearts content and never progress. Everyone else will be level 100, enjoying the game just as much as you are.
Last edited by Akedomo#3573 on Dec 25, 2024, 8:18:02 PM
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Posted byAkedomo#3573on Dec 25, 2024, 8:15:09 PM
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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
Level 100 is not an achievement, you simply grind level 82 enemies for miniscule xp for eternity. No one sees it as an achievement.
Gating it is nothing else than a tiny fraction of the playerbase, speed levelers and hardcore poe players, saying that everyone has to respect them reaching 100 when in reality most don't even see it that way. You are expected to reach max level in a rpg, if you cannot then there is no point to playing. If anything, it is weird if you do not reach 100 that means you quit somewhere during the game.
If you reach level 100 in hardcore then probs to you, that is cool. Softcore? No one cares. People seeing it as an achievement there are simply pretending they did something but do not actually want to play hardcore so they defend mechanics that make it so people worse than them can never reach their "achievement".
Not exactly a strong argument to defend it.
Making all these penalties optional (opt in) for extra rewards like more xp etc is simply superior. If you care for reaching 100 faster than others then playing with these penalties is optimal, and everyone who cares for it is affected by it. Simple really.
Last edited by BK2710#6123 on Dec 25, 2024, 8:17:14 PM
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:15:58 PM
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