Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

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mrfox123#7595 wrote:

The only thing that already matter is dps.

So go walk around maps with 200hp and 0/0/0 defenses.

Intellectually dishonest post since even glass cannon gear has defensive stats on them to survive attacks by nature of the affix system.

Intellectually dishonest post? If you are so smart that you can take a minute and think, why do glass cannon die easily even with your notion of the "affix" system? Do you call your build "glass cannon" if you have enough defensive "affixes"? Do you even think before posting?

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

Quote The only thing that already matter is dps. Quote

So go walk around maps with 200hp and 0/0/0 defenses.

Intellectually dishonest post since even glass cannon gear has defensive stats on them to survive attacks by nature of the affix system.

Intellectually dishonest post? If you are so smart that you can take a minute and think, why do glass cannon die easily even with your notion of the "affix" system? Do you call your build "glass cannon" if you have enough defensive "affixes"? Do you even think before posting?

The reality to the "difficulty" of these games is that they are more numbers based games than skill games.

As you progress through the game there is a "unwritten" stat threshold you have pass for the game to not straight up delete your character or make it so that certain mobs become literally unkillable.

Once that minimum requirement is hit, almost everything else will go into dps. Unless the alternative is a meme invincible build that still satisfy the minimum dps requirement.

In the modern world, with build sharing and professional min-maxers at an all time high, this "difficulty" of figuring these numbers out is pretty much skippable.

All that's really left is the choice of a theme and primary skills, which will alter the thresholds to various degrees, though more-often than not it's just taking b-element nodes instead of a-element nodes.

And so far for PoE1, the most skilful part of the game, is arguably the first three acts, the acts that has no portal penalty, the acts that has no exp penalty.

They're just the acts where you can care the least about satisfying the numbers thresholds and rather focus on the new game mechanics such as active block and dodge.

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mrfox123#7595 wrote:

The reality to the "difficulty" of these games is that they are more numbers based games than skill games.

As you progress through the game there is a "unwritten" stat threshold you have pass for the game to not straight up delete your character or make it so that certain mobs become literally unkillable.

Once that minimum requirement is hit, almost everything else will go into dps. Unless the alternative is a meme invincible build that still satisfy the minimum dps requirement.

In the modern world, with build sharing and professional min-maxers at an all time high, this "difficulty" of figuring these numbers out is pretty much skippable.

All that's really left is the choice of a theme and primary skills, which will alter the thresholds to various degrees, though more-often than not it's just taking b-element nodes instead of a-element nodes.

And so far for PoE1, the most skilful part of the game, is arguably the first three acts, the acts that has no portal penalty, the acts that has no exp penalty.

They're just the acts where you can care the least about satisfying the numbers thresholds and rather focus on the new game mechanics such as active block and dodge.

I can partially agree about the number base instead of skill base. The point I was trying to get across is that, why build your defense thinking that "I need enough amount of x to survive y" but in reality, we are not always at 100% and that's why, even if you copy a build from someone else's, its up to you to tweak that build to fit your playstyle. If 4k is enough for x person, that does not hold true for person y and z since there will be differences in their reaction time.

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mrfox123#7595 wrote:

Once that minimum requirement is hit, almost everything else will go into dps. Unless the alternative is a meme invincible build that still satisfy the minimum dps requirement.

I can kill Xesht difficulty 4 without problems. Sure, I can't kill him that fast compared to your pure dps build that deletes him in a few seconds but the question is, do I even need to delete him that fast? I make my build the way I want it to be because I like it that way thus I am having fun using that build. I don't tailor fit my build base on what is meta or div/h but I will make it as efficient as possible. It's up to you what or how you allocate your defenses. If you think you can sacrifice this much dps with that someone else's build, then that might be a good idea if you are comfortable with the resulting tweak.

As i said multiple times before, punishing people for playing the game is never good. I also dont understand the idea that when people are happy and gain stuff they will stop playing....Yes they might stop playing for that league/time, because they are done or they dont like the current league, but they will come back for the new adventure for sure.

Wasting people time on purpose for losing their exp when someone may have 3 hours or less per day to play and they randomly die from off screen one shot or something on the ground that you cant see or it is even invisible is not good business model. On that note please add option to turn of most of the skill effects/breach purple wave/delirium grey screen, the pulsing window when you are on low health etc, would be great.

The game is awesome, but please rethink carefully the idea to force people to play more by punishing them on death or other means to slow them down so you can boost some meaningless numbers that people are playing more/longer for your statistic.

Best regards and happy holydays.

So with capped lightening resist i got 1 shot with 1800 health and 1000 energy shield by a magic mobs electric attack on a tier 9 map.
I had killed all rares with ease and the map was complete, I was just killing the few remaining monsters. With that much health, energy shield and a capped resistance I shouldn't be getting 1 shot by a magic enemy who's attack had 0 tell. Thats not only unbalanced but bad game design. Losing xp for that is rediculous. There was literally nothing I could do better.

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iMirageX#4580

"Why are you forcing the game to change to suit you when you can go play some other game?"

This is the same as saying "Why are you complaining about the politcs in your country when you can move to another country"

We like PoE2. Learn something for your life. While you are still making sound, that means you care, but if you go silent...

We love PoE2 and we are giving our suggestions and feedback to see the game improving, and this is the sole purpose of EA. If you see spams of complaints about on-death effects, stop and reflect for a moment: If there are so many people complaining about a few things, do you really think just because you are ok with it, that the others are wrong? If a feedback is "spammed", it's probably because it's a big problem for a lot of people. If it's not a problem for you, ok, but respect other people's opinions.

I'm gonna stop here, the only obnoxious thing I see here is your post.

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

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joakinjkm#5415 wrote:

I totally agree with the Anduvriel#4240 post. That's the point, I've spent 200hours playing with my monk and I reached 91 lvl, done T18 bosses for unlocking their points and now I'm in a point that invest time making Maps and dying and loosing all the EXP invested it's the worst feeling ever felt playing a game.
Then I quited the game and I'm waiting if they will change the EXP loss. If not, 200 hours invested in a 30$ game feels worth... but I can't understand what's the point of loosing EXP in a game.

So if you haven't read what I posted, exp loss has multiple implications and the most prominent is keeping builds diverse. If exp loss was remove and together with 1 portal on death, then the only thing that will matter is "DPS". If there is no consequences when you die, why build defense? You see how POE 2 will turn into a shallow game if that happens.

What people are seeing right now is just the immediate and do not think "what will this do when this is implemented?". The reasoning "then make another server", isn't really "feasible" unless GGG makes a POE 2 "Softcore (easy)" server, that is "if".

Are you sure about that claim? Playing a build with zero defense won't get you to far, will it? You will still have to redo the content, right? You will not gain any rewards, right? There are plenty of games without death penalty that have very good build diversity..

My claim is opposite to yours - I think that build diversity is killed by the death penalty far more than it would be killed by its lack. If I can die easily to stupid oneshot off screen and lose everything I put and some of what I already had which build will I choose? Any that I like? No, only the ones that let me survive as much as possible while dealing enough damage. Ultra top meta dps with the most broken packed defense layers the game has to offer. Why top dps - cause than it's far easier to cut something for even more defenses, easier to find items.

Isn't that exactly what is happening in poe hardcore? Where the death penalty is the biggest there can be? Have you ever compared build diversity between hardcore and softcore in a league? Which do you think has better? That is something you can actually check.

I will let you do it to prove your claim. Show us the proof that the more death penalties in poe the more build diversity we will see. Show us that there are more unique different skills and classes used by 100lvl hc characters than softcore ones in the ladder, its a pretty good sample of 10k chars. I don't know which one of us is right, but I am willing to agree to your claim if you can prove it.

Although I think you will not do it and just go claiming, " but but hc is its own thing" - yeah it's death penalties to the fullest by the definition - end of the line. You can't punish a player more than that (well maybe ggg could introduce one char per league to do hc*2). Jokes aside, I believe you are wrong on this topic and you are constantly omitting the extreme costs that the death penalty puts on the game. Look up my previous post in this thread. I am open for discussion.

I WANT to face challenging content.

I want to know that if I don't perform well, nail every dodge, avoid every attack, I can die. I want there to be a very real chance of death in every map I play.

I can't do that in a game with a big death penalty.

Punishment makes players AVOID the challenging content. Why juice a map to give you a 25-50% of death if you lose the map and XP if you fail?

If the design is to have players run dozens of maps with no chance of failure, they could simply have us plug the maps into a pachinko machine that will dish out the rewards. That would be more engaging than running semi-AFK, no-risk content.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

I WANT to face challenging content.

I want to know that if I don't perform well, nail every dodge, avoid every attack, I can die. I want there to be a very real chance of death in every map I play.

I can't do that in a game with a big death penalty.

Punishment makes players AVOID the challenging content. Why juice a map to give you a 25-50% of death if you lose the map and XP if you fail?

If the design is to have players run dozens of maps with no chance of failure, they could simply have us plug the maps into a pachinko machine that will dish out the rewards. That would be more engaging than running semi-AFK, no-risk content.

Well. Most people here seem to equate time and frustration as a challenge.

You're right though. There isn't a challenge. Anyone with enough time can just run safe maps, and actively do so, to avoid the 'challenge' of being pissed off that you lost 5 hours of your time.

The mechanic doesn't make the game more difficult. It just makes it more frustrating, and makes it take more time. Both of which, people quit over.

There's plenty of ways they could add challenge to the game. I hope they can figure this out instead of sticking to this old archaic diablo/everquest mechanic meant to pad your gametime in a contentless game of the early 2000's.

Did you guys hot fix something and not document it? I started with 60% xp and now im at zero with the same gear doing the same maps lol