MF is fine.
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From a mechanical/balance point of view, MF is VERY bad. From a psychological point of view for the players, it's even worse. Drops will always feel bad when you know MF is very strong, so suddenly MF becomes the most desired stat on items, which is bad in a game power progression.
So... Games should be fun. But when MF indirectly makes the game less fun for 'most' players, it is bad. Easy as that. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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I don't have access to data about what's actually happening with the economy, because only GGG does, but my concern would be that the entities generating most of the items and currency in this game -- bots -- aren't going to pick up items to ID, and they will only pick up currency. Then you end up with too much currency chasing too few items (inflation). And no, inflation doesn't impact everyone equally; it disproportionately impacts people in the middle and lower rungs of an economy, while people at the top can more easily charge more for their time/services/goods.
I guess at some point, currency would become so worthless & abundant that people would begin picking up more items to craft on, but I doubt bot operators are ever going to sit around and ID rares. MF only affecting items would resolve this problem, to an extent. |
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+1
Spork and skills used to stack mf need to be adjusted. Nerf them hard. |
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Any "MF" (Rarity) fix would need to work in conjunction with introducing a new "league" to the E.A. Existing characters will be moved to "standard" league along with all of their inherent wealth.
As far as I'm concerned the issues that the OP is addressing is actually a GREAT reason to remove currency from MF or MF entirely and it's for a reason that the OP didn't address. Some builds / classes sacrifice very little to go MF while other builds have CRAZY affix pressure on their gear. Until the opportunity costs are roughly equalized between the classes/builds then any system that rewards MF will be FUNDAMENTALLY broken ... Until said opportunity costs are addressed I'd propose we keep MF but do the following: 1. Have some investment into [combined] MF feel reasonable ... your returns might be +50% items and +25% divines [or similar rare currency] 2. Have more investment not do as much but still give a noticeable return .. returns might be +75% items and +33% divines. 3. Have such strict diminishing returns such that net returns of +100% items [more rare & uniques] and +50% divines would be impossible. NOTE: The people good at the game will still have a MASSIVE TREASURE TROVE because they'll farm MF, kill a lot of things REALLY fast, and engage in far more rewarding mechanics that most player will. I think that is fair & reasonable as long as the economy stabilizes in such a manner where everyone feels like they can still progress, make currency, and grind some gear / achievements / power out. |
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" If the top 0.1% can generate more combined wealth than the bottom 95% combined - and they very much can - is that an issue, or Working As Intended? Whether magic find exists or not, the top 0.1% will generate more wealth than virtually the entire rest of the playerbase combined. A player who can juice a map to the point of generating a thousand-plus exalts on that map will be capable of doing the same thing if the top-end drops are five hundred exalts instead, or two hundred. They will still dominate the market to an unreasonable and unhealthy degree when everyone else is feeling pretty good about finding one or two exalts every few maps. That level of wealth disparity cannot be balanced, and it means there's no way to get the Ultra Elite Gigawealthy Hardcore to play the same game as even just the midcore POE crowd, let alone the casual playerbase that makes up the massive majority of any game's playerbase. Adjust base drops so the midcore and casual players are seeing enough currency to "craft" (hah) with? The Gigawealthy Ultravets will simply generate ten thousand exalts per map rather than one thousand. It is not possible to stop the Giga Elite from outperforming everyone else in this game by several orders of magnitude without implementing the sort of diminishin-returns system that would largely nullify the effects of Uber Juicing maps, and if you take away the ability to Uber Juice maps for ludicrous levels of rewards, the Giga Elite will burn the entire game down in wrathful retribution. Never mind that Uber Juicing for sheer quantity of reward loot is extremely unhealthy for the game, PoE1 Ultravets consider it a non-negotiable Must Include for a game to count as "Path of Exile". So we're stuck with it. All of which is to say that yes, MF is fine. Because eliminating MF doesn't actually change, stop, or even affect the core problem. The core problem is Ultravets and Gigawealthy Super Elite being able to generate more currency than the entire rest of the playerbase combined, and using that ability to crash the market. You want to fix currency exchange rates and item prices? Don't nerf MF. Nerf juicing, and Gigawealth generation. Then watch the entire game explode from POE1 Ultravets screaming the roof off. |
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" I agree with that. I think the intent is for you to have a MF runner, and a boss killer, and a <insert whatever mechanic here> character. not a jack of all trades who's a master of all of them but that doesn't make MF inherently bad. |
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" i didnt address it because I don't agree with the premise of the argument. you shouldn't be able to do everything on one character. having multiple for niche roles is better game design and I also think it's better for the player to have multiple options to obtaining gear. if/when exalts and divines are cheap you'll have more opportunity to craft/gamble your way to upgrades and I think that's better for the player over the long term. which is probably what the originally creator had in mind for the system. people losing their minds over what may end up becoming the value equivalent of an augmentation orb is absurd. the current market environment is a bubble. higher value items, like perfect jewelers orbs, are closer to being the equivalent of a high value item like a BER rune from D2 (which i think is what poe was trying to replicate with this system in the first place) are already not dropping that often as it is. even with 500 rarity increase. the issue here is not the system it's the player perception of what an ex/div orb ought to be worth and they are just wrong. i dont want the ONLY option for gear progression to be trade. that just gives even more control over to the top 0.1% and RMT. nvm what i already said about the perception of value being out of whack Last edited by Grimnar92#7276 on Dec 30, 2024, 4:29:33 PM
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MF creates FOMO. FOMO pushes players to adjust their builds to include MF as a mandatory affix. Depending on your defenses, you may easily have space to fit MF or not at all, which is a major problem. Life/Armor builds can't really fit it, but ES builds easily can. MF is not balanced in multiple ways.
I feel like it should just be removed if they can't balance the affixes properly, let us scale it via difficulty on waystones or maybe something in Atlas passives (already has some nodes there). |
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Rarity applying to currency is absolutely stupid. The higher the content you’re doing, the more currency should drop. Period. People shouldn’t have to solve resists, life, armor, ES, evasion, damage etc and then have to stack MF on top of it just to make mapping worthwhile.
Ideally they should completely remove MF from gear and boost the base MF on all atlas nodes by default, because as is drop rates are far too low. Then they can add additional MF to waystones and the atlas tree. It doesn’t belong on gear. Last edited by Blasphemous84#2190 on Dec 30, 2024, 4:44:04 PM
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Thing about MF is it has always been bad. Get all this great gear you never wear because you are wearing your mf gear all the time.
Plenty of MF and such in map crafting and such so i agree mf needs to be removed. |
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