Listening to the community too much is what ruined PoE 1 for many of us.

PoE2 received a lot of vocal criticism (at least on forums), so PoE1 numbers should go up. But it seems, it hasnt happened.

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feydh#4825 wrote:

PoE2 received a lot of vocal criticism (at least on forums), so PoE1 numbers should go up. But it seems, it hasnt happened.

PoE1 is abandoned by devs, and didnt receive real content since a lot.

Wait for new league. If devs dare to do it. They probably fear what is coming and see the real numbers poe1 vs poe2.

I'm 100% for them to double down on their vision for a few years without compromise so that we can put the "people want challenging game" argument to bed. See if there are enough people that could carry the game but they'll never do that. Gee, I wonder why?

@Valmar But are the numbers when the new league starts - the real numbers ? Maybe current numbers are the real numbers or maybe its somewhere between. Well, if PoE 2 bad, then why people dont play PoE 1. GGG tries to solve this problem, I would say, they are searching, experimenting. Fast spinning hamster wheel with dopamine hits – lasts for 3-4 weeks, and what kind of game it really is.

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feydh#4825 wrote:

@Valmar But are the numbers when the new league starts - the real numbers ? Maybe current numbers, are the real numbers or maybe its somewhere between. Well, if PoE 2 bad, then why people dont play PoE 1. GGG tries to solve this problem, I would say, they are searching, experimenting. Fast spinning hamster wheel with dopamine hits – lasts for 3-4 weeks, and what kind of game it really is.

PoE1 is a game that, each cycle, brings people for about a month, and then people leave to play other games until next league. Its been that way for years.

Almost every ARPG, honestly, same as Diablo 3, even Diablo 2 back in the day decades ago!

New league pops, people come in mass (streamers, viewers, casual players, everyone), they play hard for 2 weeks-1.5 months depending on the player and go elsewhere until a new league starts 3 months later.

Thats the way online ARPGs work because of their nature.


Because development of PoE2, PoE1 has not receive new league since half a year and its delayed, so thats why.

Hope I made myself clear enough for you to understand, pardon my English.


PS: and yeah I agree with some of your points, but this is how these games work, hehe. See Last Epòch as another example, everyone and their mum playing now because new league, and was abandoned the previous months, etc. Rinse and repeat!
If you check the top streamers, they fluctuate from arpg to another arpg or game because season, and so their viewers and a majority of players also. Crazy, but this is how this thing works, like it or not :/

Some example:

https://steamdb.info/app/238960/charts/#6y

You can see the peak at each league and how people are waiting since months for the next one. Some leagues are more succesful than others but you can see the tendency I talked you about.


PS: and the fact that Im saying this is not that Im arguing with you, I think people should play the games they love. I'm just explaining you and answering why, doesnt matter if you and me like that or not, hehe, thats what most people do. They come to new content, experiment a new build, and when they succeed and their goal (beat new boss, beat something, get that build to rock) they leave to another game to avoid burning.

Its hard to play the same game for 13 years, but the fact that people always come back again after that many time says something about the game. In response to "what kind of game is that" I can say it's a very successful one, honestly. In other ARPGs less succesfull people play for a month or a couple m,onths, uninstall and never ever play them again. Here you can have thousand of hours across the years/decades. And. Always. Coming. Back.

sorry for double post, I thought I was editing it.

@Valmar Well, I don't like how this model developed over the years. So PoE 2 bad and PoE 1 not good enough until new league. I assume that GGG recognizes flaws that this approach brought. Now others are copying this model as well, so it gives even more motivation for new ideas, new approach to aRPG. I would say, GGG are the guys to experiment with new ideas, brave, determined and experienced to confront the orthodoxy in aRPG (they created).

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feydh#4825 wrote:

@Valmar Well, I don't like how this model developed over the years. So PoE 2 bad and PoE 1 not good enough until new league. I assume that GGG recognizes flaws that this approach brought. Now others are copying this model as well, so it gives even more motivation for new ideas, new approach to aRPG. I would say, GGG are the guys to experiment with new ideas, brave, determined and experienced to confront the orthodoxy in aRPG (they created).

Hi I dont like it either, Im with you here, man.

However is not a GGG thing. This model started back in the day in Diablo2 when they introduced "ladders" (seasons) back in 2003!!!. They were the first (though they didnt introduce new content, they just reset economy and players) and the model turned out sooooo successful year after year so upcoming games copied it, but at the same time improved it with seasonal changes and real content. So it was Diablo2 the first ARPG game to introduce this seasonal thing called ladder. I played for many of them before PoE or Diablo 3 even existed. Yeah I'm that old lol. We loved to speedrun a lot back in that day also, its just there was not such things as streamers nor youtubers, and you learn guides and builds and strategy via forums and friendly online communities, not videos. And it was the same as today, just 6 monthsd rather than 3 because games were a lot harder than nowadays so it took more time. But samish abandone and come again approach as now. Oh man, such a great time to live and play :)

Ontopic again:

And Torchlight 2 was the first ARPG to introduce random maps, they dont get enough credit for that, but following arpg picked both ideas, maps from torchlight 2 and seasons (ladders) from Diablo 2.


So PoE and Diablo 3 both took that approach in 2013 and 2014. With the internet and streaming era starting to develop, it was a big success, so they will keep doing it moving forward.


We can not like it, but honestly without that system, games would have died in couple years max. Thats why every online ARPG does it and prevails. Its a proven strategy over the decades. 22 years later, Last Epoch, Diablo 4, PoE 2 are planning to do the same.

I don’t know if people are being deliberately obtuse or if they are truly lacking capacity. POE 2 IS NOT POE 1. They are different games. If they were to make POE 2 to be exactly like POE 1 then what would be the point? They didn’t shut down POE 1 - the servers are still active. Nothing is stopping people from playing POE 1. Yet, they boot up POE 2 play it, then complain about how it’s not like POE 1. Should have simply booted that instead. These people just ruin things that have potential simply because it’s not what they are accustomed to. Yes, I’m talking about the streamers.

They are trash. And let me just get on this early because people have a sorely flawed picture of gamers in relation to those streamers. They aren’t the ones coming up with all the crazy build and figuring out al the amazing interactions etc. They aren’t simply the ones posting about it. They are not in some unique talent or intelligence league. Actual talented gamers have been doing amazing stuff in ARPGs, fighting games, shooters etc, and still do. We’re just not starved for attention and likes. But they have their cult following of gamers who can’t or won’t hunk for themselves and then they spew very uninformed and ignorant opinions on matter far beyond their depth, especially when it comes to the complexity of game design. They aren’t just whiny little children who’ve never learned to cope with change that takes them from positions of glory. Their followers, knowing no better, lean on their silly opinions and ignorantly parrot them to their own detriment. But they would never realize that unless the streamers they follow tell them so.

This generation of gaming is so awful and it’s because companies don’t make games anymore - they make interactive pander material. The devs have also generally become greedy and most have no understanding or passion for game outside the financial gain, but that’s an another topic. Everyone now wants to have all the say and opinion on how a game is designed. In the past, a game was released and you had to accept that the game was what it was because it was designed to be what it was. Nowadays, you cant have that because everyone want to decide what the script is supposed to be, what the skills and abilities are supposed to be, wha the level design is supposed to be, and then they start to foam at the mouth if devs do anything new that doesn’t line up with what they are accustomed to, which brings us back to POE 2. Streamers really need to stfu with the POE 2 complaints with regard to it not being like POE 1. That is the point. Go play POE 1. You’re souring the game for everyone. You are toxifying the community. You are not as creative and innovative as you would like to believe. You are overestimating your value.

Please shut up and get off the servers.

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DexterXIII#9336 wrote:

Go play POE 1.

In a game built around seasons and additional content, that isn't as simple as you make it out to be. I want nothing more than to play PoE1, but I have done everything there is to do in this league, and built everything I wanted to build. It has been running for close to a year, and we are "trained" by GGG to expect a new league every 3-4 months.

But don't worry, we will be playing PoE1 once the new league comes out.

You know, you can also just "go play PoE2" instead of debating PoE2 in the PoE1 section of the forums. What are you even doing here?