I might quit your game due to exp lose.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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nitefox1337#3569 wrote:

1.You don't need "XP Loss" to improve.

A difficulty wall is more than enough to improve. Thats's how you get better in 99% of the games where there is no XP loss on char death.


2.You don't need to improve. It's just a game. It's not a competition. It's not like the first to get to level 100 gets 1 Million bucks.


PoEFanboys defending this mechanic is the weirdest thing in the game industry. Especially when they don't even bother playing "Hardcore".

PoE1 never became an AAA title because of its psycho mechanics. PoE2 will be the same.

For PoEFanboys only.

1. You have it the other way around, if you dont have xp loss then you dont need to improve, you just corpse rush anything.

2. But some people enjoy improving to overcome a challenge, and its a good thing that someone makes games to satisfy those people, doesnt mean you have to enjoy it, not every game is made for everyone.

3. Dont agree with your point but even if you were right I dont see what would be so wrong about ggg making a game that their loyal playerbase would enjoy instead of being focused on being a AAA game.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Usually I'd give you a proper explanation however I wrote this so many times, and there are countless topics about this, so hopefully you understand that I cannot be bothered with it anymore and the CM(s) have read the information by now anyway.
A tl;dr would be bad game design, does not accomplish what it wants to do evident by dev intent, should be turned into a reward mechanism to accomplish the designed intent, archaic mechanic no one ever liked in any game and was added in days of no updates to pad gametime, psychological consumer behavior (loss aversion) making this a retention killer, make it optional for those who care for race to 100, no one should be bothered by how others play their game (defenders of this mechanic are guide writers in cohort with traders to price fix meta items for their safe to 100 build guides, or rmt/boosters), it discourages challenging content from being created and attempted, it makes existing content easy by necessity, there should be level 100+ content for the tryhards to really push their character rather than a "do not fall asleep" check that we have right now, create mechanics rewarding deathless consecutive runs which reward anything you want such as meaningful xp or unique items to separate people who die from those who do not.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Can elaborate on any of those but yeah it's all been chewed through, people who defend xp penalty have gotten so far they made up reasons for it existing despite devs never saying it does for these reasons (it is all documented after all) and their intentions missed the mark in execution so either it is hubris or just a carryover from poe1. Since this is not poe1 there's little reason to keep something that crashes player retention into the concrete floor as poe2 is set up to be a live service game and wants to be the top dog of the genre. From a financial perspective it would not be viable to make a game for a few people with too much time to grind through the penalties.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

If anecdotes matter for anything, which they do not, I would never return to this game after a wipe after getting 95+ I can safely say this is the most braindead and boring arpg ever. The mere fact that any experimentation with builds or risk taking gets punished with you losing hours of progress is antithetical to the player expectation of a rpg and makes for an unfun experience, the game feels like a job that stresses you out rather than stress relief as you always have the pressure to perform. It is a natural consumer expectation to reach an "end", casuals (casual non arpg player at that but also very casual arpg players) want to reach a satisfying end (max level) to put the game down rather than being hit with a wall and do the same. The difference here is that a satisfying conclusion has great effects on player retention (high satisfaction leads to high return rates) this is evident by entertainment studies most notably in movie sales.
This is the only game where leveling is seen as some kind of achievement which is laughable giving the gameplay loop of it but it highlights a real desire and concern of those who defend it, whether knowing or not, which is a lack of filtering content for people who put the time and effort into their character. Rather than filtering people without the time skills etc required GGG should instead create content in an endgame which is made for people to push further. There's no reason for either side of the argument to "lose" here when the solution should further the enjoyment of both sides the receive from the game.

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Alkon20#1818 wrote:

xp loss should be consistent on death, not a flat poercentage no matter your level. Dying at 75 should not be a lot less punishing than dying at 95, but it is. Losing 2 hours of gameplay at 95 versus 10 mins at 75 is not logical. It should be the same amount of time spent lost (on avergae). Obviously that could possibly be vastly different between players, but it would be easy from analyzing data to determine the average amount of time to gain %X experinece at each level, then fix those numbers.

That would be fair and I think cause a lot less issues. Now, as to determine what exactly should that loss be; ie 30 mins of playtime vs 10 mins, is up for debate, but in its (and POEs) current state, xp loss being extremely more punishing the more you level is not a good way to go, imo.

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Redthorne82#3177 wrote:

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Alkon20#1818 wrote:

xp loss should be consistent on death, not a flat poercentage no matter your level. Dying at 75 should not be a lot less punishing than dying at 95, but it is. Losing 2 hours of gameplay at 95 versus 10 mins at 75 is not logical. It should be the same amount of time spent lost (on avergae). Obviously that could possibly be vastly different between players, but it would be easy from analyzing data to determine the average amount of time to gain %X experinece at each level, then fix those numbers.

That would be fair and I think cause a lot less issues. Now, as to determine what exactly should that loss be; ie 30 mins of playtime vs 10 mins, is up for debate, but in its (and POEs) current state, xp loss being extremely more punishing the more you level is not a good way to go, imo.

GGG Patch Notes: We have equalized all exp loss to be the last 12 hours of in-combat time, regardless of your level. You can now de-level.

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

These points were all tackled in earlier threads please concede when you were given strong counter arguments that satisfy your conditions as well rather than repeat as if nothing happened.

1) Reward deathless performance (any kind of drop penalty on bosses if no first try so chase items require a deathless attempt, low xp per map and multiple deathless maps required for good xp GGG is responsible for any kind of mechanic here) so corpse rushing does not really get you much, the key here is avoiding the feeling of loss which is devastating to a players desire to play. Reward good players, not punish bad ones. Death in off itself encourages improvement, kicking a man when he is down does not.

2) The game lacks content someone like you can tackle that is challenging, genuine concern, which should be developed but the penalty makes it so you cannot have such content as real hard content results in a lot of deaths i.e. progression loss.
There is a need of hard endgame content that only those with dedicated characters can perform in, mixing it in with the expected leveling curve only causes problems and makes both sides unhappy.

3) PoE1 is kind of that game already, and GGG wants to expand their playerbase otherwise they would have never gone through with this financial investment. If GGG is capable of making a good game then the fanbase will stay, it is unlikely that the penalty to xp itself is that good aspect since you never hear anyone in other games advocating for such a mechanic.
This is likely more of a fear of "if they cave in here then the entire game changes" which is a natural fear of change all humans have and it would be a shame if GGG abandons all they want yes. However, not all things they want are good and the EA brought in a lot of potential new players who even stated they like the game except this one aspect, as you can see with all the suggestions in regards to making this mechanic an opt in. Players like you would retain what they enjoy, those who dislike it can disable it. Use any of the solutions that exist or make up a new one, the end goal is for everyone to be able to enjoy the game and not take it away from each other.

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Alkon20#1818 wrote:

xp loss should be consistent on death, not a flat poercentage no matter your level. Dying at 75 should not be a lot less punishing than dying at 95, but it is. Losing 2 hours of gameplay at 95 versus 10 mins at 75 is not logical. It should be the same amount of time spent lost (on avergae). Obviously that could possibly be vastly different between players, but it would be easy from analyzing data to determine the average amount of time to gain %X experinece at each level, then fix those numbers.

That would be fair and I think cause a lot less issues. Now, as to determine what exactly should that loss be; ie 30 mins of playtime vs 10 mins, is up for debate, but in its (and POEs) current state, xp loss being extremely more punishing the more you level is not a good way to go, imo.

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

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Alkon20#1818 wrote:

xp loss should be consistent on death, not a flat poercentage no matter your level. Dying at 75 should not be a lot less punishing than dying at 95, but it is. Losing 2 hours of gameplay at 95 versus 10 mins at 75 is not logical. It should be the same amount of time spent lost (on avergae). Obviously that could possibly be vastly different between players, but it would be easy from analyzing data to determine the average amount of time to gain %X experinece at each level, then fix those numbers.

That would be fair and I think cause a lot less issues. Now, as to determine what exactly should that loss be; ie 30 mins of playtime vs 10 mins, is up for debate, but in its (and POEs) current state, xp loss being extremely more punishing the more you level is not a good way to go, imo.

As a set percentage it makes it less punishing on lower levels (which is where a lot of the complaining is coming from). It's a gradual level of loss, during the campaign there is none, then XP loss on death starts but since it's a percentage it's minor for the lower (and more important) levels.

The game is really balanced around about level 90, some builds as low as 85. Which is why it makes sense that the higher levels have a bigger loss (in terms of time, as you have described it). When levels really matter the penalty for failure is there but mild, when levels are not that important (outside of internet points) then it is more punishing to fail (if getting to 100 is your goal).

The thing most of the people complaining still don't seem to fully grasp is that you do NOT need to make it to level 100. This is not D4 where the end game basically starts at level 100. This is the end of the line, there is no more to grind (for levels).

At the higher levels the game is about gear, build and player skill. It is not about levels, that single passive point is not going to make or break you.