Player based will leave and this game will die out if they don't remove the XP Penalty

"

shiraha19#6298 wrote:

how did you assume that it was the minority?

You don't understand the concept of vocal minority. You just don't.

"

shiraha19#6298 wrote:

Yes, give me at least one game that turned into "sh*t" because they removed the EXP Penalty from that game. You did say many so I'm guessing more than two right?

Where did I say that games turned to shit because of removing the XP penalty ?

You try so hard to twist my words, it just proves you can't have a normal discussion.

"

cavexs#4102 wrote:

Then I am completely on side with Jakker. If we talk about lower level than that your opinion doen't matter in terms of impact. And I already told you how to get 95+ even if blindfolded.

Of course I list my problems with that. Because it is my subjective view on the issue. Shall I also pretend to speak for a big majority of people and not feel slightly embarrassed to do so?

Alright dude we get it. You know how to level 95+ blindfolded and you are o-so-powerful. This is not the topic where we brag our achievements and assume we get players back in game.

"

SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

"

mikeab79#3627 wrote:

Not really, it's observable in every ARPG. Players want an EZ button and will constantly ask/demand for it. Sure, some may only want the XP penalty gone, but you can't reasonably say that the calls to end the penalties will stop with the XP penalty.

You might want to look up what slippery slope fallacy means before you deny it and repeat yourself.

They are already asking for other penalties to be removed. That's not a product of his/our imagination.

"

LaiTash#6276 wrote:

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Honest question... Don't you think they could be more successful if this specific pain point was addressed? Don't you think it's possible that more people would play longer and be more likely to spend money if death penalties didn't feel so punitive?

No i don't. GGG wanted a fairly hardcore and complex game even though the most "logical" choice would be to try and attract as many casual players as possible by dumbing down to diablo 3 levels. Sticking to their design choices which they felt were correct even though a lot of players were unhappy with them and just wanted to grind to 100 with no setbacks while instantly obtaining BiS items from the market is what made PoE successful. Just because you're frustrated after dying and suffering XP penalty doesn't mean removing that penalty would good for the game in general. In the end you may be frustrated but PoE is simply a better game than any other ARPG on the market so you're gonna stick around regardless.

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Where did I say that games turned to shit because of removing the XP penalty ?

You try so hard to twist my words, it just proves you can't have a normal discussion.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y

We are in a topic of XP Penalty. You sir are replying to that topic right now.

Don't pretend I'm twisting words when you're clearly here for this topic.

So I guess I've proven my point? No games has turned sh*t because of it? If you can't give an example then thank you for validating that point.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

They are already asking for other penalties to be removed. That's not a product of his/our imagination.

I didn't say it was imaginary - I said it's a fallacy to suggest "we must not do X, because it might lead to Y."

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

It would still affect the game.

Have you ever considered that the removal of the EXP-loss would waste "your time" more than keeping it? And no, the argument "I don't care, I play SSF" doesn't count, the game is balanced around "Softcore Trade".

So, how would it be more harm than good to you?

If you remove the EXP penalty you undo a nerf to the top-end of players.
In short, for YOU, as someone who is not the top-end, it would seem great on the surface, but in practice, your game experience would become worse.

Without the EXP-loss, the top-end can zoom even faster and brute-force everything they want, whenever they want.
You would left behind in progress so fast, it would be laughable. Do you get a "good" item to sell? Nobody cares, they already have the highest and best content on farm-status, so whatever YOU get - devalues faster thus you don't get enough resources to catch up.

Sure, the top-end does not suffer from the EXP-loss itself because they rarely die or don't at all, BUT they would not get slowed down either anymore when the penalty is removed.
The top-end already knows how hard they can push a thing and when to avoid the penalty thus getting slowed down indirectly by the EXP penalty.

The bridge between top and low would get even bigger and the low-end would left behind even more. Every item you find, every improvement you make would have lower value.

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

"

LaiTash#6276 wrote:

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Honest question... Don't you think they could be more successful if this specific pain point was addressed? Don't you think it's possible that more people would play longer and be more likely to spend money if death penalties didn't feel so punitive?

No i don't. GGG wanted a fairly hardcore and complex game even though the most "logical" choice would be to try and attract as many casual players as possible by dumbing down to diablo 3 levels. Sticking to their design choices which they felt were correct even though a lot of players were unhappy with them and just wanted to grind to 100 with no setbacks while instantly obtaining BiS items from the market is what made PoE successful. Just because you're frustrated after dying and suffering XP penalty doesn't mean removing that penalty would good for the game in general. In the end you may be frustrated but PoE is simply a better game than any other ARPG on the market so you're gonna stick around regardless.

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

XP penalty is ABSOLUTELY a part of what makes Path o Exile what it is. It's a part which says "you need to actually know what you're doing to be successful in this game" and "you WILL experience setbacks in our game" and "highest levels are reserved for best of the best".

"

LaiTash#6276 wrote:

It's a part which says "you need to actually know what you're doing to be successful in this game" and "you WILL experience setbacks in our game" and "highest levels are reserved for best of the best".

Like I've repeatedly said - there would still be 4 other punishments in place, even if you remove the XP penalty. All of those things would still be true.

"

shiraha19#6298 wrote:

We are in a topic of XP Penalty. You sir are replying to that topic right now.

Don't pretend I'm twisting words when you're clearly here for this topic.

So I guess I've proven my point? No games has turned sh*t because of it? If you can't give an example then thank you for validating that point.

And you sir, are actually replying to this quote :

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y and asking for changes to suit their entitled need. I don't want that to happens to PoE2 either. And I think it won't happen because the devs commit to their vision, but seeing how popular is the game, they also attracted a huge bunch of babies and that's putting a lot of pressure, which they surely aren't used to.

So yes, you are trying to twist my word to feed your troll narrative.

A lot of games turned to sh*t because of blindly following the hateful ever unsatisfied vocal minority polluting the forums and social medias, by fear of bad publicity, lack of spine, or simple greed.