Player based will leave and this game will die out if they don't remove the XP Penalty

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

Let's be honest. If they removed the XP penalty, how long would it be until the playerbase demand the rest of the penalties be removed?

Slippery slope fallacy. You claim they wanted no penalties, but that's not what's being argued here.

Not really, it's observable in every ARPG. Players want an EZ button and will constantly ask/demand for it. Sure, some may only want the XP penalty gone, but you can't reasonably say that the calls to end the penalties will stop with the XP penalty.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Well, you suppose it's a majority. Unless you don't understand the whole concept of vocal minority to begin with.

The games ? Too many of them. Do you even look at games being made and followed ?

I can't tell if you are serious or not. I have to guess you aren't.

It's neither of that. I was asking you but you kept dodging questions. Here's the question again.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

How can you tell they were the minority when most of them has left the game?

Is there a poll somewhere that I missed?

Again, I never said they were the majority as I don't have the data. So how did you assume that it was the minority? Was there a poll/voting somewhere with regards to EXP Penalty?

Yes, give me at least one game that turned into "sh*t" because they removed the EXP Penalty from that game. You did say many so I'm guessing more than two right?

I'm serious but you can't find any example. Google ain't helping?

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

How can you tell they were the minority when most of them has left the game?

Is there a poll somewhere that I missed?

Yes, you are totally right.

ALL the people that left PoE2 EA so far left BECAUSE of XP loss and only that. That's obvious.

Also all the people that died in the last two months died because of wasting their time on PoE2. That's obvious.

Why straw-man the argument? Nobody is saying it's the sole reason, but it's certainly one reason - do you dispute this?

Well i for one certainly dispute this. The drop in population is nothing out of the ordinary

a) for games in general
b) for PoE specifically

Very few games don't lose most of their playerbases after 2 months. PoE always peaks at the start of a league and loses three thirds of the population by 3rd month. Then people come back for a new league even though XP penalty is still there, so it's not XP penalty that makes them leave in the first place, they just get bored which isn't surprising. So far PoE2 follows the same pattern and there's absolutely no reason to think that XP loss is a major contributor.

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

Not really, it's observable in every ARPG. Players want an EZ button and will constantly ask/demand for it. Sure, some may only want the XP penalty gone, but you can't reasonably say that the calls to end the penalties will stop with the XP penalty.

You might want to look up what slippery slope fallacy means before you deny it and repeat yourself.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

how did you assume that it was the minority?

You don't understand the concept of vocal minority. You just don't.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

Yes, give me at least one game that turned into "sh*t" because they removed the EXP Penalty from that game. You did say many so I'm guessing more than two right?

Where did I say that games turned to shit because of removing the XP penalty ?

You try so hard to twist my words, it just proves you can't have a normal discussion.

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cavexs#4102 wrote:

Then I am completely on side with Jakker. If we talk about lower level than that your opinion doen't matter in terms of impact. And I already told you how to get 95+ even if blindfolded.

Of course I list my problems with that. Because it is my subjective view on the issue. Shall I also pretend to speak for a big majority of people and not feel slightly embarrassed to do so?

Alright dude we get it. You know how to level 95+ blindfolded and you are o-so-powerful. This is not the topic where we brag our achievements and assume we get players back in game.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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mikeab79#3627 wrote:

Not really, it's observable in every ARPG. Players want an EZ button and will constantly ask/demand for it. Sure, some may only want the XP penalty gone, but you can't reasonably say that the calls to end the penalties will stop with the XP penalty.

You might want to look up what slippery slope fallacy means before you deny it and repeat yourself.

They are already asking for other penalties to be removed. That's not a product of his/our imagination.

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Honest question... Don't you think they could be more successful if this specific pain point was addressed? Don't you think it's possible that more people would play longer and be more likely to spend money if death penalties didn't feel so punitive?

No i don't. GGG wanted a fairly hardcore and complex game even though the most "logical" choice would be to try and attract as many casual players as possible by dumbing down to diablo 3 levels. Sticking to their design choices which they felt were correct even though a lot of players were unhappy with them and just wanted to grind to 100 with no setbacks while instantly obtaining BiS items from the market is what made PoE successful. Just because you're frustrated after dying and suffering XP penalty doesn't mean removing that penalty would good for the game in general. In the end you may be frustrated but PoE is simply a better game than any other ARPG on the market so you're gonna stick around regardless.

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Where did I say that games turned to shit because of removing the XP penalty ?

You try so hard to twist my words, it just proves you can't have a normal discussion.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y

We are in a topic of XP Penalty. You sir are replying to that topic right now.

Don't pretend I'm twisting words when you're clearly here for this topic.

So I guess I've proven my point? No games has turned sh*t because of it? If you can't give an example then thank you for validating that point.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

They are already asking for other penalties to be removed. That's not a product of his/our imagination.

I didn't say it was imaginary - I said it's a fallacy to suggest "we must not do X, because it might lead to Y."