Player based will leave and this game will die out if they don't remove the XP Penalty

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

It would still affect the game.

Have you ever considered that the removal of the EXP-loss would waste "your time" more than keeping it? And no, the argument "I don't care, I play SSF" doesn't count, the game is balanced around "Softcore Trade".

So, how would it be more harm than good to you?

If you remove the EXP penalty you undo a nerf to the top-end of players.
In short, for YOU, as someone who is not the top-end, it would seem great on the surface, but in practice, your game experience would become worse.

Without the EXP-loss, the top-end can zoom even faster and brute-force everything they want, whenever they want.
You would left behind in progress so fast, it would be laughable. Do you get a "good" item to sell? Nobody cares, they already have the highest and best content on farm-status, so whatever YOU get - devalues faster thus you don't get enough resources to catch up.

Sure, the top-end does not suffer from the EXP-loss itself because they rarely die or don't at all, BUT they would not get slowed down either anymore when the penalty is removed.
The top-end already knows how hard they can push a thing and when to avoid the penalty thus getting slowed down indirectly by the EXP penalty.

The bridge between top and low would get even bigger and the low-end would left behind even more. Every item you find, every improvement you make would have lower value.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Honest question... Don't you think they could be more successful if this specific pain point was addressed? Don't you think it's possible that more people would play longer and be more likely to spend money if death penalties didn't feel so punitive?

No i don't. GGG wanted a fairly hardcore and complex game even though the most "logical" choice would be to try and attract as many casual players as possible by dumbing down to diablo 3 levels. Sticking to their design choices which they felt were correct even though a lot of players were unhappy with them and just wanted to grind to 100 with no setbacks while instantly obtaining BiS items from the market is what made PoE successful. Just because you're frustrated after dying and suffering XP penalty doesn't mean removing that penalty would good for the game in general. In the end you may be frustrated but PoE is simply a better game than any other ARPG on the market so you're gonna stick around regardless.

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

XP penalty is ABSOLUTELY a part of what makes Path o Exile what it is. It's a part which says "you need to actually know what you're doing to be successful in this game" and "you WILL experience setbacks in our game" and "highest levels are reserved for best of the best".

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

It's a part which says "you need to actually know what you're doing to be successful in this game" and "you WILL experience setbacks in our game" and "highest levels are reserved for best of the best".

Like I've repeatedly said - there would still be 4 other punishments in place, even if you remove the XP penalty. All of those things would still be true.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

We are in a topic of XP Penalty. You sir are replying to that topic right now.

Don't pretend I'm twisting words when you're clearly here for this topic.

So I guess I've proven my point? No games has turned sh*t because of it? If you can't give an example then thank you for validating that point.

And you sir, are actually replying to this quote :

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y and asking for changes to suit their entitled need. I don't want that to happens to PoE2 either. And I think it won't happen because the devs commit to their vision, but seeing how popular is the game, they also attracted a huge bunch of babies and that's putting a lot of pressure, which they surely aren't used to.

So yes, you are trying to twist my word to feed your troll narrative.

A lot of games turned to sh*t because of blindly following the hateful ever unsatisfied vocal minority polluting the forums and social medias, by fear of bad publicity, lack of spine, or simple greed.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

It's a part which says "you need to actually know what you're doing to be successful in this game" and "you WILL experience setbacks in our game" and "highest levels are reserved for best of the best".

Like I've repeatedly said - there would still be 4 other punishments in place, even if you remove the XP penalty. All of those things would still be true.

The 4 punishments aren't really setbacks. Not being rewarded because you died is NOT a setback, it's just how it should be in any game by default. Without XP penalty anyone with enough free time will be able to reach the highest level. That should never be a thing.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

So yes, you are trying to twist my word to feed your troll narrative.

A lot of games turned to sh*t because of blindly following the hateful ever unsatisfied vocal minority polluting the forums and social medias, by fear of bad publicity, lack of spine, or simple greed.

Nah dude, you're the troll who lives in this forum.

You didn't even play the previous league and how would it ruin it for you if you barely play the game? I would understand others I've replied with but you?

I'm gonna go back to the real grind, you enjoy grinding here in the forums.

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

The 4 punishments aren't really setbacks. Not being rewarded because you died is NOT a setback, it's just how it should be in any game by default. Without XP penalty anyone with enough free time will be able to reach the highest level. That should never be a thing.

Maybe time is not valuable to you, but time is extremely valuable to others. When people say they don't feel like their time is respected, it's not just an empty phrase. It's about spending time as a valuable commodity and having negative progress to show for it. Time is something that is literally impossible to get back once you spend it.

You also lose waystones and anything you used to juice it. You lose tower influence at that node. And you lose loot that you did not get a chance to pick up. Those are actual penalties; it's way more than "not being rewarded. "

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

a lot of people complain about EXP loss and a lot of them also leave because of it.

Now what's your solution to the problem? Tell them to go on a different game? Amazing!

Yes. It literally is the solution. If you cannot handle a basic mechanic of the game thus you don't like it enough to play it (and overcome the mechanic) - it's not for you.

If you don't like turn-based combat for whatever reason and don't want to play a game with it - you don't play "Baldur's Gate 3".

If you don't want a game with a competitive nature - you don't play LoL, Dota, CS.

It's actually that simple.

That doesn't follow at all. If someone dies in BG3, they reload the save; they still play BG3 cuz they enjoy it. If someone dies in LoL they respawn, if they lose a match they play another; they play LoL because they enjoy it. We play PoE2 because we enjoy the gameplay, but death in PoE2 softcore? Frustrating, demotivating, aggravating, even insulting. There is no save reload here, there is no just respawning or starting another match, we didn't merely "lose time". We lose experience progress, we lose incomplete mechanics, we lose drops already on the ground, we lose tower influence, and we lose the waystone itself.

A death mechanic is rarely a core feature except in rogue-likes/lites, hardcore sandbox/PvP games where your loot drops, and optional game modes like one-life Hardcore or Ironman. Nothing about the death penalty is "core" to PoE2 anymore than plenty of other games I've played through the years that eased up on theirs. Having a penalty, sure, that's at least an ancillary part of the core of the game, but the severity is not. Punishment =/= Challenge, Challenge =/= Difficulty, Difficulty =/= Punishment. I could be the best player in the world but that won't save me from a rare suddenly doing 10-15 times more damage than every other rare on the same map I'm clearing without a single care and just because 200 hours was apparently not enough time to grind top mod tier Life and Strength on every piece of gear I have to get one-shot.

The penalty is far too intense for a LOT of players. If that many truly still like it the way it is, then there's nothing wrong with having a third "Mediumcore" league. Or, they could reapproach the death penalties entirely, and make the death penalty more punitive based on how juiced the waystone was or any number of other factors.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

So yes, you are trying to twist my word to feed your troll narrative.

A lot of games turned to sh*t because of blindly following the hateful ever unsatisfied vocal minority polluting the forums and social medias, by fear of bad publicity, lack of spine, or simple greed.

Nah dude, you're the troll who lives in this forum.

You didn't even play the previous league and how would it ruin it for you if you barely play the game? I would understand others I've replied with but you?

I'm gonna go back to the real grind, you enjoy grinding here in the forums.

LOL BRO. Yeah, I admit, I didn't play the previous league of PoE2. That's true. And you know what else is true ? You didn't either.

You want PoE2 to be PoE1, that's the issue right there. Have you noticed ; it's not the same game. Go back to the 1 if you like it so much, it's still there. Why do you force yourself to be there if you can't enjoy a game for what it is ?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Nothing about reducing the death penalty would "dumb down to Diablo 3 levels" because the death penalty isn't the moment to moment gameplay, it isn't the skill design, it isn't the passive tree, it isn't class design, it isn't the skill mechanics, it isn't the gem system, it isn't the gearing & crafting design, it isn't the combat flow, it isn't boss design & mechanics, it isn't the end game system, it isn't anything that actually makes Path of Exile what it is. It's a nob they can tweak, no different than the numbers behind a skill's damage potential, or what each stat does, or the effectiveness of a defense. They could remove the death penalty entirely and it would still be the same game. I certainly support some manner of death penalty, but the fact that so many grow increasingly frustrated with the current state of softcore death penalty, no, we will NOT stick around to play a game we no longer enjoy because it disrespects our time so much.

It would still affect the game.

Have you ever considered that the removal of the EXP-loss would waste "your time" more than keeping it? And no, the argument "I don't care, I play SSF" doesn't count, the game is balanced around "Softcore Trade".

So, how would it be more harm than good to you?

If you remove the EXP penalty you undo a nerf to the top-end of players.
In short, for YOU, as someone who is not the top-end, it would seem great on the surface, but in practice, your game experience would become worse.

Without the EXP-loss, the top-end can zoom even faster and brute-force everything they want, whenever they want.
You would left behind in progress so fast, it would be laughable. Do you get a "good" item to sell? Nobody cares, they already have the highest and best content on farm-status, so whatever YOU get - devalues faster thus you don't get enough resources to catch up.

Sure, the top-end does not suffer from the EXP-loss itself because they rarely die or don't at all, BUT they would not get slowed down either anymore when the penalty is removed.
The top-end already knows how hard they can push a thing and when to avoid the penalty thus getting slowed down indirectly by the EXP penalty.

The bridge between top and low would get even bigger and the low-end would left behind even more. Every item you find, every improvement you make would have lower value.

I'm referring to death penalty generally, more specifically the loss of waystone et al. As much as it starts to grate on me, the exp penalty I personally can tolerate (though others it is a different story). I fully support having SOME penalty, as no one should be allowed to succeed by head butting a wall hoping it crumbles before they concuss or bleed out. What I am NOT in support of is the current severity of the penalty. Not sure what I said to suggest I only care about the exp penalty and hate that specifically.