Player based will leave and this game will die out if they don't remove the XP Penalty

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

Well then GGG should NOT remove XP penalty because otherwise people will reach 100, become unable to progress any longer and leave.

I would have continued working on other ascendancies, other classes, & experimenting with other skills/builds. XP penalty killed my desire to do that.

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LaiTash#6276 wrote:

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

It's not a fucking harm, it's a boon.

Gaming is all wasted time. Learning you need to improve your build or skill to progress is a gift in spending your time in this game more enjoyably. If you can't see that you're just looking for easy mode, well there are plenty of crappy games for that already - that's what gutted means.

Losing EXP is a boon? lmao. The masochism is hard on this one.

You can't really convince the people who quit to learn and improve their build and expect them to come back. That's just telling them "git gud".

People leave if they can't progress any longer and that will never change.

Well then GGG should NOT remove XP penalty because otherwise people will reach 100, become unable to progress any longer and leave.

Level 100 was never meant as a participation trophy. It's an achievement. I never reached it, and it didn't stop me from playing for almost a decade.

XP penalty is for player retention, it's very obvious.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Only you call XP loss a problem. I don't. So I don't need a solution to a non-problem. Not all games are made for everyone.

The people that can't play this game shouldn't ask the game to be made easier so they can play it : that'd kill the game. And that's a entitlment problem. So my solution there is to tell them the hard truth : play something that suits you.

Removing the EXP penalty doesn't mean the game is already made for everyone(facepalm). So if it's not a problem for you then why put too much effort defending it? I mean you're pretty confident nothing will change right?

You see, the people are ABLE to play this game, it's not that they can't but their progression is halted each death and that demotivates them to not continue the game.

Your "solution" is what's happening right now. I'm surprised that you're okay to lose players on a game that you enjoy.

None of what you say makes sense.

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y and asking for changes to suit their entitled need. I don't want that to happens to PoE2 either. And I think it won't happen because the devs commit to their vision, but seeing how popular is the game, they also attracted a huge bunch of babies and that's putting a lot of pressure, which they surely aren't used to.

So it's up to a few of us to try to teach this new playerbase to either git gud OR move on. Which they have a hard time doing, because gitting gud requires efforts (they can't provide) and moving on requires humility (they don't have).

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Yes. It literally is the solution. If you cannot handle a basic mechanic of the game thus you don't like it enough to play it (and overcome the mechanic) - it's not for you.

If you don't like turn-based combat for whatever reason and don't want to play a game with it - you don't play "Baldur's Gate 3".

If you don't want a game with a competitive nature - you don't play LoL, Dota, CS.

It's actually that simple.

I disagree.

Please focus on "progression" because your example is a bit too off.

"Turn-based combat" doesn't really identify as a way to progress into something.

Here's an example:

You have a pet that can level from 1-50 and each time it dies it loses EXP. Of course as a gamer you would think that one of your main goal is to reach max level on each of your pets.

But if there are existing random mods/mechanics that can one shot your pet you would feel like leveling for hours and losing 5-10 hours of progress isn't worth playing.

Now that doesn't mean that the game isn't for you specially if you enjoy the game and its mechanics. So going back to your solution, you'd be okay to lose players, and possible trades from them just because you don't want them to play this game for suggesting the removal of the penalty and it isn't for them, correct?

of course i'm pissed when i fucked up by running in the wrong direction or my old man reflexes prevented me from pressing buttons in time.

but at least i'm blaming myself for the failure and i'm not trying to change the rules to win

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y and asking for changes to suit their entitled need. I don't want that to happens to PoE2 either. And I think it won't happen because the devs commit to their vision, but seeing how popular is the game, they also attracted a huge bunch of babies and that's putting a lot of pressure, which they surely aren't used to.

So it's up to a few of us to try to teach this new playerbase to either git gud OR move on. Which they have a hard time doing, because gitting gud requires efforts (they can't provide) and moving on requires humility (they don't have).

This entire "EXP-loss" discussion reminds me of "Harvest".

GGG released Harvest, then don't kept it and really vocal ppl complained like ppl do here with all the same lines "I won't come back" or "Play the game anymore" or "The game will lose it's player base" yadda yadda.

The only thing that happened is - GGG implemented a super soft version of Harvest after a really long time so ppl can at least play around with the mechanic when they like it without breaking GGG's vision too much and some of the ppl who were "outraged" never came back.
For GGG's growth, no harm was made. But to their sanity dealing with this shit?
Oh boy.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

Removing the EXP penalty doesn't mean the game is already made for everyone(facepalm). So if it's not a problem for you then why put too much effort defending it? I mean you're pretty confident nothing will change right?

You see, the people are ABLE to play this game, it's not that they can't but their progression is halted each death and that demotivates them to not continue the game.

Your "solution" is what's happening right now. I'm surprised that you're okay to lose players on a game that you enjoy.

None of what you say makes sense.

I've seen many games turn to sh*t because of a toxic vocal minority hating X and Y and asking for changes to suit their entitled need. I don't want that to happens to PoE2 either. And I think it won't happen because the devs commit to their vision, but seeing how popular is the game, they also attracted a huge bunch of babies and that's putting a lot of pressure, which they surely aren't used to.

So it's up to a few of us to try to teach this new playerbase to either git gud OR move on. Which they have a hard time doing, because gitting gud requires efforts (they can't provide) and moving on requires humility (they don't have).

Don't be shy you can give out examples of those "many" games that turn sh*t because of people wanting to remove EXP loss penalty.

I wouldn't tell them to "git gud" and say they're the ones that are toxic.

How can you tell they were the minority when most of them has left the game?

Is there a poll somewhere that I missed?

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Only you call XP loss a problem. I don't. So I don't need a solution to a non-problem. Not all games are made for everyone.

The people that can't play this game shouldn't ask the game to be made easier so they can play it : that'd kill the game. And that's a entitlment problem. So my solution there is to tell them the hard truth : play something that suits you.

Removing the EXP penalty doesn't mean the game is already made for everyone(facepalm). So if it's not a problem for you then why put too much effort defending it? I mean you're pretty confident nothing will change right?

You see, the people are ABLE to play this game, it's not that they can't but their progression is halted each death and that demotivates them to not continue the game.

Your "solution" is what's happening right now. I'm surprised that you're okay to lose players on a game that you enjoy.

What progression? It was never intended that a big amount of players will ever make it to level 100. Because it is actually a trade-off and has always been. How often do you actually die if you unspecc everything that raises the difficulty of a map?
PoE has been a game of decisionmaking. If you want level 100 you simply avoid anything that puts you in danger. You will loose a ton of currency but you want to achieve a goal that not everyone has, right? If you want to farm double-vaaled 82 maps with an evasion build or 8/8 bosses you don't expect to ever get to level 100 and that is fine, because you can do something not everyone can. If your goal is to zoomzoom maps you obviously don't care about layers of defense and level 100. But again you progress to something not everyone has. Making level 100 the only indicator of progression is missunderstanding the game imo.

So why do people defend things they are not affected from? First of all to make the achievents worth the time spent. I don't want to be forced into HC like in D3 to achieve a bare minimum of something that not every player has after 2 days. And second it never stops at the beginning. First it's the 6 portal, then it's the XP loss. After that it is the waystonesustain. Give the people all that and they start complaining about boss difficulty and how hard it is to obtain rares for endgame. I honestly think GGG made already too many steps in the wrong direction and the removing of XP loss would not be crucial in itself but in combination with everything that was made already to make the game easier. I mean that already made some core supporters leave the game and wait for 3.26. So in the end one side has to go anyways and it is up to GGG to chose between the people that paid their bills for the last decade or the big amount of new players with different expectations. I could even live with second option as long as there are frequent updates to poe1.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

I disagree.

Please focus on "progression" because your example is a bit too off.

"Turn-based combat" doesn't really identify as a way to progress into something.

Here's an example:

You have a pet that can level from 1-50 and each time it dies it loses EXP. Of course as a gamer you would think that one of your main goal is to reach max level on each of your pets.

But if there are existing random mods/mechanics that can one shot your pet you would feel like leveling for hours and losing 5-10 hours of progress isn't worth playing.

Now that doesn't mean that the game isn't for you specially if you enjoy the game and its mechanics. So going back to your solution, you'd be okay to lose players, and possible trades from them just because you don't want them to play this game for suggesting the removal of the penalty and it isn't for them, correct?

Can YOU focus on the topic? It doesn't matter what the mechanic is. Gameplay, progression or related to whatever is secondary.

The progress the top-end would make indirectly affects the low-end negatively without the penalty.

And no, I wouldn't think that your "Pet Game" isn't worth playing when this 5-10 hour penalty exists. If I like the game, I figure out what can cause the death of my pet, then prepare for it, build against it - deal with it.
So I make sure that my progress is affected in the slightest way possible.

Sure, if my pet dies to a bug - that would suck, but it's literally a bug. It's then up to the developer to fix it so it doesn't happen anymore and only the "skill/knowledge-based" (intended) risks stay.

And yes, I would be ok to lose these players in PoE. They contribute basically nothing. IF you are so deep into the "low-end" that the EXP-loss is your biggest problem that keeps you from playing the game - your presence or absence will basically have 0 impact on the game.

And to be more precise. I am not against "noobs". I wrote guides for beginners, I helped ppl with basically everything the game has to offer and spent more time than I should finding solutions to their problems, but I DON'T care the slightest about someone who has the mentality "The game has to respect my time" while refusing to "respect the game" and actually put something in from there side besides time.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

How can you tell they were the minority when most of them has left the game?

Is there a poll somewhere that I missed?

Yes, you are totally right.

ALL the people that left PoE2 EA so far left BECAUSE of XP loss and only that. That's obvious.

Also all the people that died in the last two months died because of wasting their time on PoE2. That's obvious.