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I rolled back a few minutes to get fuller context - this was not the statement that you portrayed it to be (about XP penalty being set in stone and crucial for their design). He's not even talking about POE 2.
DUDE... it's from 2021 in a PoE league interview, why would he talk about PoE2?
I already told you - their stance is "EXP loss stays" and if you want to know why... idk... watch all interviews so you get the reasoning of WHY.
But my guess is, no matter their reasoning - you don't care.
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Posted byJakkerONAIR#4902on Feb 7, 2025, 1:03:51 PM
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Except the reason people are advocating for a change is because they DO enjoy the game and the severity of the death penalty is an active detriment to their enjoyment. This is money left on the table if GGG chooses to not respect their feedback and consider changes.
Well i and a lot of other people always respected GGG for not sacrificing everything for money. I mean sure they're running a business but this turned out to be a good business strategy.
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For real, last sentence completely eludes me, in what way is hardcore harmed whatsoever if softcore changes its death penalty? There are games with basically no softcore death penalty whatsoever other than you died that still have hardcore modes. Hardcore is irrelevant in this topic.
Hardcore IS relevant for the same reason SSF is relevant when talking about auction house. The game is balanced around Standard, and it's been like that since the beginning, which is understandable considering how difficult it is to balance a complex game like this one even around just one mode, let alone four. As a result any change that theoretically should only affect standard ends up affecting other modes in the long run.
Something tells me far fewer people would quit over lack of punishment versus people who quit for feeling it's too much. Not like we're talking about adding some P2W feature or going full mobile game Tencent approach.
And I fail entirely to see how any change to softcore genuinely impacts hardcore. Maybe you have some room to argue if they introduced a proper dedicated SSF with good drop rates against the trade league, but adjusting death penalties on softcore won't impact hardcore at all.
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Posted byCPTBRUMBL3Z#3146on Feb 7, 2025, 1:09:48 PM
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Even GGG in the last few sentences said they needed to get players back. You can find this for yourself, go look.
That's their goal in every single league they release, the statement has nothing to do with how PoE2 is doing. Characters in PoE1 and 2 lasts about 2 to 12 weeks depending how hardcore you are and if you trade or not, that's the nature of ARPGS, 2-4 weeks is for streamers that zoom the game and 8-12 weeks is for SSF/very casual players.
Tech guy
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Posted byWarrax#2850on Feb 7, 2025, 1:10:36 PM
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The XP penalty is to harsh in the end-game. It should be removed or as an alternative when doing maps do the following: When you die the node that you die on does not give XP (you got the XP the first time) so either skip it or try again without getting XP.
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Posted byNesi#9241on Feb 7, 2025, 1:14:12 PM
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It is the console equivalent of a GOTCHA games. I played those games for years and spent hundreds per month. Eventually quit and chose actual real console games for the improved experience with cheaper gaming.
This game design and the low budget reset with a single new feature and new purchased content is as GOTCHA as is gets.
Low production cost maximum profit. Free games are usually the most expensive games you could possibly play.
The problem is that they enjoyment and reward is not balanced here.
As a previous GOTCHA game spender I fking love this core game and im used to spending alot of money and I really want this game to be my game for a long time. But I seriously feel that this end game is not repayable and takes too long to play the first time.
I dont know how they fully fix it but the current system is complete GOTCHA garbage coming from a GOTCHA player.
A far better long term playability feature is needed. Im ok with a GOTCHA strategy as console is still 10x cheaper than mobile but there are serious issues with this that make even the 10x cheaper unusable and intractable.
Please endorse something better. This entire end game concept is garbage. Balance changes may make it better but I dont know. Im not a developer and don't want to construct and entire game without being paid to do so.
Yeah, unfortunately I have this feeling that some areas of the game feel like gacha =/ I mean, "crafting" is gambling, running pinnacle bosses is gambling because there is a cost behind the fight, if you don't get a good drop then you lost currency. I'm ok with vaal and chaos orb being gamble, it's their sole purpose and makes sense "namewise", but the gamble is everywhere.
I've always heard good things about PoE1 when it comes to f2p games and how it sounded fair to buy only cosmetics and stash tabs and be able to be as strong as other players regardless of money spent. I'm happy with PoE2 microtransactions, but these gambling parts of endgame sometimes demotivate me.
Last edited by Philvil#9636 on Feb 7, 2025, 1:18:03 PM
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Posted byPhilvil#9636on Feb 7, 2025, 1:15:56 PM
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DUDE... it's from 2021 in a PoE league interview, why would he talk about PoE2?
I already told you - their stance is "EXP loss stays" and if you want to know why... idk... watch all interviews so you get the reasoning of WHY.
But my guess is, no matter their reasoning - you don't care.
That clip makes no mention at all about XP loss, so why did you link it? It makes your claims, for the time being, unsubstantiated.
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Posted bySpankyKong#9805on Feb 7, 2025, 1:16:17 PM
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DUDE... it's from 2021 in a PoE league interview, why would he talk about PoE2?
I already told you - their stance is "EXP loss stays" and if you want to know why... idk... watch all interviews so you get the reasoning of WHY.
But my guess is, no matter their reasoning - you don't care.
That clip makes no mention at all about XP loss, so why did you link it? It makes your claims, for the time being, unsubstantiated.
Holy... is it so hard to understand what Chris said?
He said that you are able to gain most of your power to a certain point, for example level 90, without huge issues, BUT the "power gain" after that point is increasingly harder - NOT mandatory, but harder.
So if you want to get "power increasement X" - you need to invest in that, more than usual.
That's the "min/maxing" he is talking about. You DON'T NEED the last levels, but if you want this "2% power increase" (min/maxing) you work for it.
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Posted byJakkerONAIR#4902on Feb 7, 2025, 1:22:05 PM
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Both "should be removed" and "should stay bc we are masters here" are too radical stances, and only lead to circular arguments probably to the satisfaction of GGG who are too lazy to change it and certainly don't care about player frustration and lost time.
What it should be is optional in softcore, meaning in Standard and mainstream temp league. Leave it mandatory for your casino races since no one experiments with builds there anyway. Even D2 had difficulty levels you could swap at will, and only one of D2 difficulties had exp penalty.
About "GGG founders know better" - what they know and what they are willing to do are polar opposites. As a Standard player in poe1 I fully experienced how much they care: div/ex swap, alternate gem wipe, 5000+ clicks scarab conversion, map conversion not fixed in at least 5 years, legacy items wiped with changes to support gem affixes... They are aware that omnipresent exp penalty is outdated, but won't lift a finger to fix it:)
Last edited by Echothesis#7320 on Feb 7, 2025, 1:23:53 PM
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Posted byEchothesis#7320on Feb 7, 2025, 1:23:23 PM
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It is the console equivalent of a GOTCHA games. I played those games for years and spent hundreds per month. Eventually quit and chose actual real console games for the improved experience with cheaper gaming.
This game design and the low budget reset with a single new feature and new purchased content is as GOTCHA as is gets.
Low production cost maximum profit. Free games are usually the most expensive games you could possibly play.
The problem is that they enjoyment and reward is not balanced here.
As a previous GOTCHA game spender I fking love this core game and im used to spending alot of money and I really want this game to be my game for a long time. But I seriously feel that this end game is not repayable and takes too long to play the first time.
I dont know how they fully fix it but the current system is complete GOTCHA garbage coming from a GOTCHA player.
A far better long term playability feature is needed. Im ok with a GOTCHA strategy as console is still 10x cheaper than mobile but there are serious issues with this that make even the 10x cheaper unusable and intractable.
Please endorse something better. This entire end game concept is garbage. Balance changes may make it better but I dont know. Im not a developer and don't want to construct and entire game without being paid to do so.
Yeah, unfortunately I have this feeling that some areas of the game feel like gacha =/ I mean, "crafting" is gambling, running pinnacle bosses is gambling because there is a cost behind the fight, if you don't get a good drop then you lost currency. I'm ok with vaal and chaos orb being gamble, it's their sole purpose and makes sense "namewise", but the gamble is everywhere.
I've always heard good things about PoE1 when it comes to f2p games and how it sounded fair to buy only cosmetics and stash tabs and be able to be as strong as other players regardless of money spent. I'm happy with PoE2 microtransactions, but these gambling parts of endgame sometimes demotivate me.
I completely agree. Im conditioned to believe that spending around £100 per month is completely reasonable on a game is like but for some reason after £500 per month gotcha games that game me anxiety feels better than this far cheaper game.
Not sure what the issue is but im a serious spender and this game initially blew my ming and I could easily because a 3k per year spender but after campaign they tanked so hard. And just reseting progress and currency every couple months seems worse than gotcha. What a lazy min/max profit strategy.
Instead of actually creating new content they just server reset and expect extra payments. Even hardcore gotcha games put in more work.
I want new content if im paying. Not a more money hungry, worse system than gotcha.
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Holy... is it so hard to understand what Chris said?
He said that you are able to gain most of your power to a certain point, for example level 90, without huge issues, BUT the "power gain" after that point is increasingly harder - NOT mandatory, but harder.
So if you want to get "power increasement X" - you need to invest in that, more than usual.
That's the "min/maxing" he is talking about. You DON'T NEED the last levels, but if you want this "2% power increase" (min/maxing) you work for it.
I don't disagree with his statement here, that it should be increasingly harder... but XP loss isn't required in order to achieve that nor did he commit to anything close to that.
If you recall, you stated that they unequivocally said XP penalty is here to stay & that it's set in stone but when asked for the source, you failed to provide. But I welcome if you can find that statement later on. If I knew for sure that they closed the door on that, I would not bother giving further feedback on this topic.
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Posted bySpankyKong#9805on Feb 7, 2025, 1:31:35 PM
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