Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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chosk80#3649 wrote:

There is a 10% loss ? I didn't realized it, I thought there isn't any. I have died multiple times. But I am closing onto level 90 now.

Mostly SSF , and only traded 2 items so far.

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AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

Tencent and GGG wanted to widen the audience of PoE2, the exp loss is by far the wrongest decision to do so. I wrote a positive review on Steam and i will change it.

Because while playing PoE2 it becomes very clear that the 'vision' is to raise player metrics over player's efforts and fun. The choices Chris Wilson made to enpower longer playtime are insane: slower walking, bigger maps, 1-dead-map-gone, exp loss, casino crafting, not enough currency to casino craft, the insanely blown up trials and so on. These are tools to artificially stretch playtime. By reducing the fun for players. Reducing fun for the profit.

This is what Bobby Kotick would do. With PoE2 Chris Wilson just went full Kotick. And you never go full Kotick. Cause this is contrary to a community driven entitlement.

I left PoE1 years ago just BECAUSE of the completely unnecessary exp loss. It was not challenging, it was just annoying, deleting my time. Now, GGG bring it to the next iteration, to 'widen' the audience. Many people in this forum, on reddit and on Steam give multiple, plausible reasons to exclude this mechanic. And GGG will HAVE to. Cause in 2024 noone will accept this torture of wasting valueable time for a misplaced game director's 'vision' to profit. I'm totally convinced, GGG would earn more when keeping people motivated.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Yep exactly, this game feels maliciously designed to maximize player engagement metrics and inflate playtime, in the worst of ways. Exactly the kind of stuff Blizzard would do in WoW and their other failing games. It's just sad.

People play games to have fun, not to be forced to play in hardcore while wasting hours of their time just so the game can look better in some quarterly meetings and so the shareholders are happier. That is not how you design a good game, that's how you kill your own game slowly but surely. And avg. steam player number has been steadily decreasing every day since EA launched, I've been watching that number. It's already slowly losing players, before they even get to endgame because campaign is so boring. Down to 309k average now. There will be a huge drop-off when most people reach endgame and realize how pointlessly punishing dying in a map is, and then another big chunk will be lost when the first test league happens because people will go "but why would I want to level again from scratch? I already beat the campaign." and they'll be done with the game forever.

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Yep exactly, this game feels maliciously designed to maximize player engagement metrics and inflate playtime, in the worst of ways. Exactly the kind of stuff Blizzard would do in WoW and their other failing games. It's just sad.

People play games to have fun, not to be forced to play in hardcore while wasting hours of their time just so the game can look better in some quarterly meetings and so the shareholders are happier. That is not how you design a good game, that's how you kill your own game slowly but surely. And avg. steam player number has been steadily decreasing every day since EA launched, I've been watching that number. It's already slowly losing players, before they even get to endgame because campaign is so boring. Down to 309k average now. There will be a huge drop-off when most people reach endgame and realize how pointlessly punishing dying in a map is, and then another big chunk will be lost when the first test league happens because people will go "but why would I want to level again from scratch? I already beat the campaign." and they'll be done with the game forever.

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

Its not "malicious design" since you are responsible for your playtime. Its kinda amusing how you linked "this issue" to shareholders meeting. Tell me, do you even know what was the agreement made between Tencent and GGG when the deal happened? I mean clearly, you didn't know because, if you did, you won't construct something like what you said above.

Lets face it and be absolutely blunt and critical,this (the quote below)

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

Is something of a user issue and is no way a game design flaw. It's a choice if you want to be better on the games that "you like". The direction of your logic and therefor your reason is what I call regression. Instead of trying to improve yourself, you chose the other way around. You disrespect your own time invested by choosing not improve.

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AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

It's too early to read and interpret player retention on Steam player counts. It's christmas time and people have commitments to family - the time we're in is not the normal use case.

But i agree that in 2024/25 many things have changed compared to 2013. In 2013, there have been no real competitors, Diablo was a step back to it's predecessor and PoE1 hit a nerve. But now, there are so much more alternatives. It's not only that the arpg genre itself has many competitors, there's a whole attention economy working hard to gain access to people's life. And there we are: a director from 2013 still using the tools that worked in 2013. GGG's 'vision' is so outdated and misbalanced in PoE2, it just hurts.

The campaign is so long, i wonder who will repeat that every season. Cause since a decade GGG/Wilson is so utterly stobborn to give alternatives to level without campaign, even THAT hurts. PoE1 was niche with those tools applied. But PoE2 in 2025 feels totally lost facing the attention economy and the arpg competitors, because GGG does NOT understand that the time has changed.

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

Is something of a user issue and is no way a game design flaw. It's a choice if you want to be better on the games that "you like". The direction of your logic and therefor your reason is what I call regression. Instead of trying to improve yourself, you chose the other way around. You disrespect your own time invested by choosing not improve.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

No, it's the game that's badly designed. That's an objective fact. And if a game is badly designed, I click the uninstall button and never look back. And I'm not the only one who will do this lol

I ain't gonna play this boring chore of an endgame to get 2 steps forward then go 5 steps backwards cus of death penalties that are cringe,outdated,archaic mechanics. I hate having my progression lost even a bit. It's a waste of time and serves 0 purpose, all that time spent getting exp is for nothing then. I played for nothing. And do you know what that makes people do? It makes them quit the game. That is the game's fault then for making them quit and not being fun.

This game right now is a bad hamster wheel of death penalties coupled with a non-existant "crafting" system that's just a badly disguised gacha.


It's not that people "don't want to improve". It's that the game never gives them that chance, so they leave because they respect their own free time. Quite simple.

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iMirageX#4580 wrote:

You mean your opinionated fact? Whatever even that means. Yes sure, keep doing what you're doing and I'll continue farming. I started this thread lvl95 99% and now, 96 77%. I'll occasionally visit you on this thread to see how you're doing.

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AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

"

iMirageX#4580 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

A game blatantly disrespecting the player's time as PoE 2 does atm is completely unacceptable in the year 2025 lmao

Is something of a user issue and is no way a game design flaw. It's a choice if you want to be better on the games that "you like". The direction of your logic and therefor your reason is what I call regression. Instead of trying to improve yourself, you chose the other way around. You disrespect your own time invested by choosing not improve.

You're not providing any useful argument on the topic of exp loss, but constant personal insults. It would be better for anyone if you could provide convincing arguments instead of being obsessed by a person disagreeing to you.

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AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

This is what Bobby Kotick would do. With PoE2 Chris Wilson just went full Kotick. And you never go full Kotick. Cause this is contrary to a community driven entitlement.