Player based will leave and this game will die out if they don't remove the XP Penalty

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finalhatdeed#0459 wrote:

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

I wouldn't say no to a reapproach on the exp penalty, but considering how long PoE1 remained profitable the exp penalty on its own won't make people leave. Far more likely to be one-attempt maps that cost you loot, mechanics, tower influence, waystone, AND the exp penalty that is gonna make people quit.

Speaking for myself, it's way worse to lose XP than the other punishments. Taking away progress earned is more offensive than just losing time and waystones & is the primary reason that this game stopped being my every day game.

the exp loss is what breaks the game for me too. who cares about losing waystones or omens. if playing the game is fun you will just find more. but when you play for 4 hours and die twice to lose all your exp.. its the game TEACHING the player not to play the game. its ridiculous. exp loss in D2 NEVER felt this way, and level 98-99 was BRUTAL in terms of the number baal runs, but death always felt fair and even with playing, leveling, and dying the game d2 was still fun.

This is simply wrong. I was level 94 in classic d2 that was top50 or something in the ladder and a death would take away weeks of pure playtime. You compare it to LoD, which is a kind of spoiled baby version of D2, where any Mephisto Bot was able to reach level 100 in HC without any issues. This is obviously not what the devs talk about when they say it is influenced by D2.

Also remember the outrage that happened when they tried to raise the difficulty again in D3 and people went nuts because they actually had to fight rares for a few minutes. So they made the spoiled baby version again with a HC-mode where you were able to die up to two times within 5(?) minutes without really dying. That works fine and that is what the fanbase expects the game to be. This decisions would simply kill the whole base of PoE. These are different games and while I accept that less people are interested in challenges I highly doubt that poe2 would survive for a long time at all when adapting to the D4 difficulty.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

What about a Baby league instead, where you just can't die ; instead of changing the rules of Softcore. If you can't die, no xp penalty, no map loss. And the lower the health, the darker your screen (scary!)

It just like the campaign in PoE1. Even bosses hp dosen't reset after player death. I actually like it. GGG should bring this back in PoE2

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Imagine calling my statement wrong when you are clueless.

You don't lose EXP in the early game because that's the "learning phase".
I guess the concept of "the further you go - the harder it gets" is new to you!?
You want to brute-force the game and the game says "Nope, here is a brute-force prevention". That simple.

You have two options: Accept that you won't be able to level anymore at some point, or make sure you can if you want to level further.

This is such a bad faith response. I've been a gamer for decades; why would you suggest I don't understand the harder difficulty in later levels? We want the bare minimum to show for the time and effort spent. It would not even be as egregious if they just remove XP that's earned in that map but it goes beyond that - you end up with negative progress in so many cases instead of no progress.

Also still waiting on an explanation how it the game would be "gutted."

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

This is such a bad faith response. I've been a gamer for decades; why would you suggest I don't understand the harder difficulty in later levels? We want the bare minimum to show for the time and effort spent. It would not even be as egregious if they just remove XP that's earned in that map but it goes beyond that - you end up with negative progress in so many cases instead of no progress.

Also still waiting on an explanation how it the game would be "gutted."

Bare minimum for the time and effort spent?
You don't want to put in the bare minimum effort to deal with a basic mechanic of the game.

Instead of "The game does not respect my time" you could start to "respect the game".

Again, the EXP-loss is there to prevent you from brute-forcing, so you THINK what to do to progress further. Run less juiced content, upgrade your gear, level your skills, invest more in defences, improve your skill and so on.

When you remove the EXP penalty you will gain "Levels" no matter how often you die. One time? A thousand times? Doesn't matter. You would still get rewarded with a "Level Up" and thus get stronger (Atlas Points, Access to Gear, Stats) and could overcome things you should NOT overcome in the first place because you were too weak.

Do you think attempting a boss 5 times and failing should reward you with the boss loot at the end because you spent the time failing 5 times?

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

It's not a fucking harm, it's a boon.

Gaming is all wasted time. Learning you need to improve your build or skill to progress is a gift in spending your time in this game more enjoyably. If you can't see that you're just looking for easy mode, well there are plenty of crappy games for that already - that's what gutted means.

Removing one penalty doesn't make the game easy mode. There are still at least 4 other fairer penalties in place & either way - you'd still need a stronger build to advance higher.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Bare minimum for the time and effort spent?
You don't want to put in the bare minimum effort to deal with a basic mechanic of the game.

Instead of "The game does not respect my time" you could start to "respect the game".

Again, the EXP-loss is there to prevent you from brute-forcing, so you THINK what to do to progress further. Run less juiced content, upgrade your gear, level your skills, invest more in defences, improve your skill and so on.

When you remove the EXP penalty you will gain "Levels" no matter how often you die. One time? A thousand times? Doesn't matter. You would still get rewarded with a "Level Up" and thus get stronger (Atlas Points, Access to Gear, Stats) and could overcome things you should NOT overcome in the first place because you were too weak.

Do you think attempting a boss 5 times and failing should reward you with the boss loot at the end because you spent the time failing 5 times?

I think if a company wants fans to continue to support them, they need to appreciate that time is extremely valuable to regular humans. The current system does not.

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Glorfndel01#6465 wrote:

It's not a fucking harm, it's a boon.

Gaming is all wasted time. Learning you need to improve your build or skill to progress is a gift in spending your time in this game more enjoyably. If you can't see that you're just looking for easy mode, well there are plenty of crappy games for that already - that's what gutted means.

Losing EXP is a boon? lmao. The masochism is hard on this one.

You can't really convince the people who quit to learn and improve their build and expect them to come back. That's just telling them "git gud".

People leave if they can't progress any longer and that will never change.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

I think if a company wants fans to continue to support them, they need to appreciate that time is extremely valuable to regular humans. The current system does not.

Time is valuable because there is things you can do and things you cannot. If you are not willing to put in the time you don't deserve the rewards.

You aren't getting paid at work for checking in, but by working the whole day.

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shiraha19#6298 wrote:

Losing EXP is a boon? lmao. The masochism is hard on this one.

You can't really convince the people who quit to learn and improve their build and expect them to come back. That's just telling them "git gud".

People leave if they can't progress any longer and that will never change.

Then go play a game where dying doesn't matter and we will see you shortly back here after your realize it's a bore fest to not have challenge.

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SpankyKong#9805 wrote:

I think if a company wants fans to continue to support them, they need to appreciate that time is extremely valuable to regular humans.

No, no they don't.
YOU have time to spend and YOU choose how to spend it.
If the time you need to spend does not align with YOU, YOU don't spend it,
instead to force the thing to take less time.

The new mantra from some ppl "The game needs to respect my time"... yeah,
imagine respecting the game for what it is.

Many, many ppl want a complex GRINDING game with risks to take.
Is it a game for everyone? No. Does it have to be? No.

It's not hard to see that GGG has this philosophy... they are called
GRINDING Gear Games.

Ppl who want the EXP penalty removed sound to me like "Quantum" talking about "Elden Ring".