100k left your game GGG

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Characters for PoE2 listed on profile when GGG ? That would bring so much context to those discussions.

Why?`
So you can personally attack the messenger rather than content with the arguments?

Sure, if someone says "endgame bad" and that person only have a lvl 30 character, I agree.
But that statement doesn't give any criticism, its an assertion.

"Ascendancy trials are bad because they promote certain builds, are hugely random, and locked behind generally disliked mechanics"

Why would you need to know anything about the person behind this statement? If you disagree, just make an actual argument base on the supposition.
Not rocket science.

My message was clear, to bring context. There isn't the need for any malicious intent behind that (if you want the intent, I focus on facts, and profiles are facts)
The rest is you projecting and bringing some hate where there wasn't any in the first place.

That forum would be so much more constructive and interesting if ppl would just come down their horses, and wouldn't feel offended out of nowhere (I know, I know, it's not specific to this forum :D)

No, you do not need "context".
You can contend with the argument just fine without knowing a single thing about the person giving it.

Like I said, I'll repeat it. If you want to recognize the validity of assertive statements, who makes them matters. Sure.
If you need clarification, just ask for it.

Just debate the arguments. Even IF a player makes an argument that wouldn't fit with the profile, you are still making a logical fallacy.
An argument out of hypocrisy is not a less valid argument.
If I'm smoking, me telling people to stop smoking because its harmful isn't less valid. I'm just dumb for not taking my own advice.

So again, asking for insight into the arguments person or profile IS ONLY needed if you need to make a personal statement.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Characters for PoE2 listed on profile when GGG ? That would bring so much context to those discussions.

Why?`
So you can personally attack the messenger rather than content with the arguments?

Sure, if someone says "endgame bad" and that person only have a lvl 30 character, I agree.
But that statement doesn't give any criticism, its an assertion.

"Ascendancy trials are bad because they promote certain builds, are hugely random, and locked behind generally disliked mechanics"

Why would you need to know anything about the person behind this statement? If you disagree, just make an actual argument base on the supposition.
Not rocket science.

My message was clear, to bring context. There isn't the need for any malicious intent behind that (if you want the intent, I focus on facts, and profiles are facts)
The rest is you projecting and bringing some hate where there wasn't any in the first place.

That forum would be so much more constructive and interesting if ppl would just come down their horses, and wouldn't feel offended out of nowhere (I know, I know, it's not specific to this forum :D)

No, you do not need "context".
You can contend with the argument just fine without knowing a single thing about the person giving it.

Like I said, I'll repeat it. If you want to recognize the validity of assertive statements, who makes them matters. Sure.
If you need clarification, just ask for it.

Just debate the arguments. Even IF a player makes an argument that wouldn't fit with the profile, you are still making a logical fallacy.
An argument out of hypocrisy is not a less valid argument.
If I'm smoking, me telling people to stop smoking because its harmful isn't less valid. I'm just dumb for not taking my own advice.

So again, asking for insight into the arguments person or profile IS ONLY needed if you need to make a personal statement.

"

Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index#1288 wrote:

100k left, so like ANY poe 1 league after 2 weeks.

So bad thing happened before = bad thing not a problem.

100k people leaving a game, predicted or not, isn't less of a problem.
Asking WHY those players left is paramount if you want to figure out what problems the game is having.

Thinking 100k people just left after a week because "it was time, and there was no real issues with the game connected with ANY of them leaving", when we are talking about a game that takes about 30-40 hours to complete campaign, and another 200 in endgame, is monumentally short-sighted.

If I was a developer, and wanted a successful game, and a good product for paying costumers (yes early access was pay to play), I'd be asking questions along the way, as many as I could.
Every player leaving is potential revenue loss.

Any business owner knows this. Projected or not. Even if we completely remove the business aspect, and assert that GGG "Only cares about making the best game possible", another question should be raised. Namely "did any on them leave due to issues we could have fixed easily without causing more people to leave".

How about contending with the arguments I made instead of just shrugging your shoulders saying "it was meant to be".

A lot of people that left did so unhappy about the state of the game.
Just because you are not one of them, doesn't make it less valid.

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

You highlight the toxic gamer mentality. you guys just want an easy ride. no challenge at all. do you ever stop to think what the dev's vision actually is? you're describing how a glass cannon in poe1 can do well in the trials... guess what... this is poe2 and the devs have a different vision. thank god.

I love the trials in poe2. it's like you are actually Earning something due to the challenge.

If you guys don't understand then that is unfortunate. Not everything in this game is meant to be easy.

I'd like to know what build you are playing, and what level you are please.

I'd also like to know what background you have that gives you unique insights into what vision GGG might have for the game concerning ascendancies, builds, RNG and difficulty levels.

I presume you are smart enough to realize the experience is not uniform.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

[...]

You're making a whole story out of nothing here. Thanks for telling me what I need or not, oh wait.
Facts are my religion, but facts out of context have no value. That simple.

I can ask for context for myself and myself only, I may have no interest in arguing whatsoever, I can just think for myself and draw my own conclusions without wanting to brush it over others ppl face. Realize now that I never ever said if I agreed or not on your original post.

Basically, you come fighting geared to the teeth, but you're slashing air, mate.

Trials could very well have been made intentionally difficult in order to gather more data points from mid-tier gameplay in an early access game.

Ultimatum trials are really easy, you can literally pick an option 90% of the time you can completely avoid (lighting circles, tether heart, Rare monsters +2 mods etc). If your build cannot deal with these very easy mechanics I highly doubt you are doing t15 maps consistently

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Any business owner knows this.

I do own a business. I talk to investors and potential investors on the regular. And I'm telling you, the numbers you cite are not a big deal, and were probably accounted for months ago. You are burying a real point -- tedious gameplay -- underneath a pile of bad analysis.

Just people with common sense going and doing other things. Time is valuable to people with lives, families, work etc. Play a game for entertainment and enjoyment. When a company disrespects that investment of time by nerfing/breaking the immersion then they tend to make the decision to go and do other things instead. They may come back later, they may not. Something that doesn't even seem to worry GGG.

Had a great build on the sorc 4 days ago, nerfed to oblivion. Ruined the feeling of fun, didn't give up though, so migrated to a new build, put up with the cost etc. 2 days later, nerfed and unplayable again. Decided to shelve the game and move on.

A fair majority of people dropping off now will be along these reasons without taking the time to drop in here for 5 minutes and leave a comment.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

[...]

You're making a whole story out of nothing here. Thanks for telling me what I need or not, oh wait.
Facts are my religion, but facts out of context have no value. That simple.

I can ask for context for myself and myself only, I may have no interest in arguing whatsoever, I can just think for myself and draw my own conclusions without wanting to brush it over others ppl face. Realize now that I never ever said if I agreed or not on your original post.

Basically, you come fighting geared to the teeth, but you're slashing air, mate.

Not fighting anyone.

I'm asking for arguments.

You have none, other than "I'd like to know private information on players engaging on the forums, with no reason other than to satiate your curiosity".
Fine. Good for you.

I can't see how that's relevant to my post at all.