Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

"

Mouser#2899 wrote:

"

Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

"

Kumawaka#4636 wrote:

maybe youre simply not supposed to hit lvl 100, and you dont need to be lvl 100 for anything. deal with it. this whole crying about not hitting lvl 100 is hillarious. who cares?

The XP loss is bad game design at every level. It is designed to teach people to avoid challenging content.

no its designed to tell people that their build sucks and they are not ready to go to even harder content. if you want it harder, get a better character. you are not supposed to get to lvl 100 with a shit character dying through maps.

then the design fails miserably since your average player will be discouraged and learns "I should not do this again, I lose time".

No one is going to make a new character after many hours diverting from what they want to do because they die, and if punishment for dying exists they will not experiment to fix the problem because that entails dying more... so they quit.
-1 player

"

BK2710#6123 wrote:

then the design fails miserably since your average player will be discouraged and learns "I should not do this again, I lose time".

No one is going to make a new character after many hours diverting from what they want to do because they die, and if punishment for dying exists they will not experiment to fix the problem because that entails dying more... so they quit.
-1 player

so it be. if somebody cant progress any further and is not willing to put in the effort it takes to get further, i dont think the problem is on the game. at some point in the game, every single player is hitting a wall. its on the player to overcome that wall, its about risk and reward. its not on the game to delete the wall and the risk in order to get people to the rewards easily. if you dont like that, thats fine. but thats the way it is, and its good that way.

"

Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

so it be. if somebody cant progress any further and is not willing to put in the effort it takes to get further, i dont think the problem is on the game. at some point in the game, every single player is hitting a wall. its on the player to overcome that wall, its about risk and reward. its not on the game to delete the wall and the risk in order to get people to the rewards easily. if you dont like that, thats fine. but thats the way it is, and its good that way.

The wall should not be taking away the player progression, leveling is a core aspect of character progression, but meeting a wall via difficult content. To begin with maps are not difficult but you die to some random unreactable scenario (or a frost projectile in delirium fog you cant see into freeze and death for example) and lose it all as a result. It feels unfair and as a game developer this is the worst case scenario.

Hitting a wall in content, see people struggling with sekhemas e.g, is something a player can overcome without losing their xp. They already get punished and told you are not good enough but by not even throwing them a bone you do not motivate someone to improve. There should be content within the highest tier maps, and then content after maps (entry limited dungeons + bosses and what not) where failure = losing the chance at it. It's not rocket science and it already exists, players voluntarily take on that challenge and with it accept the consequences of loss.
It's also not like the game kills you for being bad, you just get killed by the balance issues of "you did not kill enemies offscreen" which I highly doubt is intended design.
Regardless of cause though, it simply offers no net positive to the game. If a (non diehard arpg) player cannot achieve max they won't come back ever because they spend their time in other games where they have fun as the feeling of loss is among the worst you can invoke in a person. Some of the players would not reach 100 regardless due to the insane xp grind required to get it, and even if a bad player gets there they should never be able to clear the content intended for max level. This is also missing here anyway, level 100+ enemy content.

XP loss needs to go
On Death Effects at least reduced by 90 %
Ground effects as well
And some of these horrible Map Modifiers.
Player get 1 advantage and the monsters 3 - i mean WTF

"

Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

so it be. if somebody cant progress any further and is not willing to put in the effort it takes to get further, i dont think the problem is on the game. at some point in the game, every single player is hitting a wall. its on the player to overcome that wall, its about risk and reward. its not on the game to delete the wall and the risk in order to get people to the rewards easily. if you dont like that, thats fine. but thats the way it is, and its good that way.

Past 83 it's no longer about "being able to progress further" and all about "farming the fuck out of normal enemies without getting killed by randomly spawned mechanics hiding inside masses of gods knows what kind of enemies".

If they can kill the bosses, then they've already good enough to level to 100.

"

mrfox123#7595 wrote:

"

Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

so it be. if somebody cant progress any further and is not willing to put in the effort it takes to get further, i dont think the problem is on the game. at some point in the game, every single player is hitting a wall. its on the player to overcome that wall, its about risk and reward. its not on the game to delete the wall and the risk in order to get people to the rewards easily. if you dont like that, thats fine. but thats the way it is, and its good that way.

Past 83 it's no longer about "being able to progress further" and all about "farming the fuck out of normal enemies without getting killed by randomly spawned mechanics hiding inside masses of gods knows what kind of enemies".

If they can kill the bosses, then they've already good enough to level to 100.

sry, im tired of people claiming they deserve to be lvl 100 and all that is blocking them to go there is bad, while they are not able to run 2 maps without dying and constantly blame the game for their own faults.

Safe to say, it's existence is less of the game and more to placate the ego of narcissistic players.

I am ok with geting penalties for dying in maps, but it should not effect the progression i did in maps before which i finished. The xp loss should not be greater than the exp i got in that map i died in.

If its fair to lose all map modifier is another point. I think at least the modifier we get of towers should still be active. The map is still under influence of the tower even if i died in it and try it again.

"

I am ok with geting penalties for dying in maps, but it should not effect the progression i did in maps before which i finished. The xp loss should not be greater than the exp i got in that map i died in.

This is a really interesting and valid compromise to the XP loss situation.

I'm a huge fan of the XP loss, and I would completely support the idea for the XP loss only applying to the XP you have gained in the current map..

Meaning, you have to successfully complete a map to progress in it, but it can't set you *backwards* behind where you were when you started the map. That seems an entirely valid approach that would provide some risk/reward difficulty, without it being so harsh as it is currently.

In fact, this could be taken the extreme, which is that if you die in a map, you lose *ALL* the XP you gained in that map, but *ONLY* in that map... This would not only fix the issue of a map setting you back, but it would also automatically balance the amount of XP loss you experienced to the level of content you are doing.

XP loss starts to feel exponentially worse when you get 1/3rd of a bar from completing a map, but lose 2 bars for dying.