T17s are still an overtuned mess that are also annoying to roll

In other words some builds might not be good against certain map mods. Shocking. It's almost like it has been like this since we've gotten maps. Wild concept!

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Ulsarek wrote:

In other words some builds might not be good against certain map mods. Shocking. It's almost like it has been like this since we've gotten maps. Wild concept!

No, The problem is that the current set of mods disproportionately target specific builds.

This discourages build variety

Map mods are the reason I dropped my holy Relic Guardian. He had the dps. He had the defenses.

But nothing he did would compare to not needing to reroll my maps as a poison holy relic necromancer.

In my mind I won't even look at the Guardian going forward. And considering ho woefully unpopular he is on poe ninja lots of other peeps wont either.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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Ulsarek wrote:

In other words some builds might not be good against certain map mods. Shocking. It's almost like it has been like this since we've gotten maps. Wild concept!

No, The problem is that the current set of mods disproportionately target specific builds.

This discourages build variety

Map mods are the reason I dropped my holy Relic Guardian. He had the dps. He had the defenses.

But nothing he did would compare to not needing to reroll my maps as a poison holy relic necromancer.

In my mind I won't even look at the Guardian going forward. And considering ho woefully unpopular he is on poe ninja lots of other peeps wont either.

Exactly, there's probably like 20 mods I need to reroll over, either because they're insane t17 mods,valdo mods or just things that get scaled by atlas modifier effect so hard that they become a problem(less recovery,chance to avoid ailments etc.). You have to delete so much chaos just to roll these maps on an average build.

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Toforto wrote:

You have to delete so much chaos just to roll these maps on an average build.

Or you can play a better build. T17 is optional content. You gotta invest currency to make currency. If you can't there's always T16 alc & go. :)

Not everything has to be accessible to everyone and every build. Encouraging min maxing or rolling your maps for appropriate returns is a valid design choice for optional endgame content.

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Toforto wrote:

You have to delete so much chaos just to roll these maps on an average build.

How about we are a bit more realistic here. Your build is not average for juiced mapping. There is plenty of stuff in modded T16s that will rip your build apart. Should T16s then also be nerfed?

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Ulsarek wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

You have to delete so much chaos just to roll these maps on an average build.

Or you can play a better build. T17 is optional content. You gotta invest currency to make currency. If you can't there's always T16 alc & go. :)

Not everything has to be accessible to everyone and every build. Encouraging min maxing or rolling your maps for appropriate returns is a valid design choice for optional endgame content.

I'm sure making build diversity non-existant with t17 juicing being the most rewarding thing in the game is very good for the game. No they aren't "optional" when they generate so much gold and also drop the uber boss fragments. "Just don't play it" isn't a solution. The solution is more nerfs to t17s until they're in an acceptable state. Having to invest hundreds of divines for a build to be able to run t17s comfortably is insanity, its completely unacceptable.

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Scarletsword wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

You have to delete so much chaos just to roll these maps on an average build.

How about we are a bit more realistic here. Your build is not average for juiced mapping. There is plenty of stuff in modded T16s that will rip your build apart. Should T16s then also be nerfed?

No lol I can run juiced t16s just fine and I barely die, I'm at like 20% exp at lvl99 from just running my favorite t16. I've ran cemetery with harbingers and max modifier effect last league for brother's gift. This build does just fine in t16s as long as I don't flamedash into something like an influenced pack spawning in. Stuff dies and gets frozen for 2 years in t16s, and they're also blinded any time I spawn a totem. I can do a fully charged up verisium deposit with just my Freezing Pulse on a 5-link with Item Rarity being the 6th support gem without dying. If you played this build you'd know just how much defense freeze actually offers. T17s just have horrible mods and horrible balancing.

Builds arent restricted from t17 as long as they are well put together. Nothing build diversity about it.

You cant expect to make something so bad, that it requires a carry for everything, and then think the game difficulty needs to be changed based on that horrific build.

Thats just a terrible build in the end. You dont get to just throw together something like this:


And then complain its the games fault. Nope its your fault for making a bad build.


Game shouldnt and wont change for something like this. You would essentially have to make content as easy as the campaign with these pathetic numbers.


For reference my current necro has similar defenses to this and its level 74.... with a tabula on.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Builds arent restricted from t17 as long as they are well put together. Nothing build diversity about it.

You cant expect to make something so bad, that it requires a carry for everything, and then think the game difficulty needs to be changed based on that horrific build.

Thats just a terrible build in the end. You dont get to just throw together something like this:


And then complain its the games fault. Nope its your fault for making a bad build.


Game shouldnt and wont change for something like this. You would essentially have to make content as easy as the campaign with these pathetic numbers.


For reference my current necro has similar defenses to this and its level 74.... with a tabula on.

This build wasn't "thrown together", I copied it. Yeah it has 0 defences and it's a glass cannon, that's the point. It has over 200 mil dps. So what? This isn't the "Gameplay Help" section of the forum, nor am I asking for any build help. So why post a screenshot of my character in pob? Also if other people with tankier builds are complaining then clearly it's not only the people playing squishy builds that is the problem kek

I don't want to play another build. I don't want to level another character in the sleepfest that is this game's campaign. I'm simply giving my feedback about t17s, and how I think they suck. I shouldn't be forced to play a specific build just to do these bad maps. It's that simple.

As I said in my previous post I can do t16s just fine, the problem isn't defences, its the maps.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Builds arent restricted from t17 as long as they are well put together. Nothing build diversity about it.

You cant expect to make something so bad, that it requires a carry for everything, and then think the game difficulty needs to be changed based on that horrific build.

Thats just a terrible build in the end. You dont get to just throw together something like this:


And then complain its the games fault. Nope its your fault for making a bad build.


Game shouldnt and wont change for something like this. You would essentially have to make content as easy as the campaign with these pathetic numbers.


For reference my current necro has similar defenses to this and its level 74.... with a tabula on.

Its not even the defences, its also that the DPS is not super high, see for comparison the Statscreen of my LS warden post glass-cannon conversion, this build was able to do T17s pretty easily, including full Mod effect 40% delirious. And that was before the big nerf early in the league. Its definitely possible to out-dps them on a glass-cannon char, it just needs a bit of work.